Thinking outside the (predator) box

[NOCK NOCK]

Most all agree that predators are a huge reason for massively declining deer numbers.
I partially agree, but there has got to be more to it on a larger scale. I do know There are multiple reasons why….that affect the herds size, but what is a major one?


My theory is fire/logging.
Looking at the states 2 biggest mule deer herds (Methow & Entiat) the main thing in common is massive wildfires.  My guess is the spotted owl thing and ensuing lack of logging started the downward spiral. 

Breaking it down I believe this may be as detrimental, or worse, than the predators.

Let’s look at non migratory (local) MD herds.  Massive fires kill a lot of the local deer, they simply cannot outrun it on big fires.  These are the deer that breed and raise their young in the same area. So now we have a reduction in breeders able to re-populate the local areas. The deer that survived the fire have much less browse, so some may move on to better areas. 

Then for the next few years all weapon classes hunters have better visibility, enabling for a better chance of harvest in the local areas (plausible that the majority of hunters harvest is local deer)
Add this all up and it’s fairly easy to reason why we are not seeing as many deer as we did 8-15+ years ago.
I feel that the herd numbers have declined way more rapidly on local populations compared to migrators.

No real good idea on how to fix this other than better forest management for the future, which needs to include logging. 
As for the current times……I fear that we may have gone way to low in local deer populations to ever come back to even close to where we were….it will take decades, if even possible to strengthen the local herds.
UGH,

[jasnt]

I think it’s a bit of everything. 

[GASoline71]

Human population growth, and human use of lands has more effect on Mulies if you ask me.  I agree fires are also a  major contributing factor to the Mule Deer herds.  But look at how land use has exploded since COVID and hasn't really slowed down.  There are more hikers, back county campers and skiers in the Methow than ever before.

Logging has an impact, but the spotted owl thing was a west coast OP thing and shouldn't have affected Mulies as far as I know.

Gary

[NOCK NOCK]

Basically for me, this is about the difference between local deer herds and migratory deer.
I spend a considerable amount of time in the hills, mushrooming in spring, Tcams All Summer Long, and during early archery, and the deer quantities are just not there, have driven hundreds of miles on FS roads and very few tracks on the road or on the cut bank.

Now if you go up in those same valleys in November and December, it seems like the deer are doing good in there everywhere. There are just drastic differences between the local and the Migratory animals, Most of what Deer people see hunting are the local ones.

Here’s a pic from last winter, saw 12 different legal bucks in one morning, in one canyon.
In the last three Septembers early archery season I have only seen three legal bucks total.

I will also add that I have noticed a huge decrease in the amount of bear crap that I see on the roads, And of all the cameras I run the only ones I get bear and cougar on are at the highest elevations 5000 feet plus. Cougars are not dumb, they will be where the food is.