FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WA GOAT HUNTERS - STOP SHOOTING NANNIES!!!

[blacktailer]

Well stated Shane, and I'm glad someone stood up and preached the facts.  I feel F & G has dropped the ball a bit as well by not hammering home the importance of NOT shooting a nanny.    Very sad that the Baker units are most likely going to get shut down once again.   Once closed, I highly doubt they would ever open up again....  Something else is obviously going on with the numbers, but it is a crying shame how many guys have killed nannies up here in recent years. 

[Tbar]

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[Slamadoo]

I'm sure the 4 legged predators of Goat also know not to eat the nannies.

I'm not promoting hunters shooting nannies, but I have spent a small amount of time with goats in my glass and it isn't that easy. A good goat hunter should be aware of this so personal responsibility is important.

However, there is ZERO chance that the rapid and steep decline of goat numbers is due to a few nannies being shot by hunters. There are other things that hunt them 365 as well as likely environmental factors.

[Dan-o]

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That's the graph!

Thanks.

[ipkus]

Complicated issue;

There is indeed something serious going on in Washington that started fairly recently that’s had a major impact on goat populations.  I suspect it’s predator related hence the silence from WDfW.  But it could be other things as well, but don’t tell me climate change…

Even before the steep decline Washington had the highest goat population in the lower 48 and still had the lowest number of tags.  How were Utah and Wyoming and every other states goat populations still relatively stable at lower levels while harvesting more goats than Washington every year???

The transplant operations from the Olympics and the follow up was a complete disaster that no one has answered for.

So, with all of that said, shooting nannie’s is a huge negative and should be avoided at all costs.  I’m totally for requiring an ID class prior to hunting like some other states have done even though I hate government oversight.

Even with the stupid amount of nannie’s getting shot, something far bigger is going on in WA and I have very little faith in WDFW to figure it out…or fess up if they already know.

[shanevg]

I'm sure the 4 legged predators of Goat also know not to eat the nannies.

I'm not promoting hunters shooting nannies, but I have spent a small amount of time with goats in my glass and it isn't that easy. A good goat hunter should be aware of this so personal responsibility is important.

However, there is ZERO chance that the rapid and steep decline of goat numbers is due to a few nannies being shot by hunters. There are other things that hunt them 365 as well as likely environmental factors.

Steep decline in goats is probably attributed to combination of draught and post-Covid steep increase in hiking pressure in core areas pushing goats to non-traditional habitat (timber). Combine that with increased predator numbers and goats living in habitat they aren’t adapted to avoid predators in and we have recipe for rapid decline. Of course the introduction of grizzlies isn’t going to help at all.

There is of course also a possibility of disease or other issue that we just aren’t aware of yet.

The nanny harvest in recent years isn’t the cause for the decline but goat herds are shown to be very susceptible to over harvest and nanny harvest in particular compared to other ungulates. So when you have a herd that has dropped in 4 years from 350 to 120 and then take out 6 nannies in 2 years you have a very noticeable impact on the herd.

Honestly I’ve been told the only reason we still had tags the last couple years is because they know hunters aren’t the cause of the decline, but that’s no longer true with very (statistically) high nanny harvest.

I suspect goat hunting in Baker units is done for good at this point.
I also suspect we’re going to start seeing a permit system for hikers to access the Ptarmigan Ridge/Artist Point area in particular.

[ipkus]

Colorado has a ton of non hunting hiking pressure (and has for a long time) and their herds haven’t collapsed…

[ipkus]

I’ve also counted 300 goats in a unit that hadn’t been open in 5 years when WDFW says they’ll issue 1 tag per 100 goats?

[Caseknife]

You do have to pass the gender identification test before they will issue the tag.  I went through all the test from different states and Alaska's was the best and gave specifics on how detrimental harvesting a nanny was to herd structure.  Washington's test was a pretty lacking comparatively.  I found that if you get close enough or had good enough glass, that identification was relatively easy.  The one real identifier, urination, better be set up for a while, their bladders are huge, and they stay in their beds for a long time.  My billy in the Goat Rocks West was aged at 6.5 years, shot him standing in his bed at 50 yards.

I can attest to the high amounts of people in the area, one evening there were 35 tents at Goat Lake, way overrun with people that have no idea of the flora and fauna they are traipsing through.

The bio did test for movi when I checked it in.  Whether that is the cause of decline, don't know.  During the aerial survey when we were scouting in early August, they counted 120 goats between the two Goat Rock units and that is what it has been for the last few years. 

[ballpark]

Doesn't the Olympic Mountains have an overpopulation of goats?  I remember a couple years ago opening it up to thin the numbers?

[Rainier10]

Doesn't the Olympic Mountains have an overpopulation of goats?  I remember a couple years ago opening it up to thin the numbers?

They did and then they tried relocating them. The move was an epic fail, most of the goats died the first year.

[HighCountryHunter88]

What's killing the goats off? It's been a quite awhile since I've spent time in the state where goats live but I've seen this topic brought up several times. I would assume if hunters killing nannies is detrimental in specific areas then they wouldn't allow any season. Going back to when I hunted goat rocks wilderness it was a joke how few tags they would issue compared to a huge goat population yet I'd still hear people say don't shoot a nanny.... And I'm sure things are different now and maybe the populations aren't what I used to witness but is hunters shooting nannies really an issue or is it something else causing a decline to the goat herds?

the goat rocks population has crashed pretty hard in recent years

[LDennis24]

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/almost-all-mountain-goats-died-after-airlift-from-olympics-to-cascades/

[dwils233]

I wish I still had  my mountain goat regs from , I think it was 1977, back then there were tons  of goat units, the  unit I  hunted was  up by Mount Ditney, another  hunter's parents posted a wood sign about him,  he was hunting never came back, never found  either.  There was lots of goats, these were good units to hunt.  It is probably why they  got rid  of the units.   More units to hunt, less people in state, I was 22 at the time, no social media, no  videos to watch, I got my goat, yes it is a nanny.  I have not put in for another  goat tag but I could, mine was not a OIL.  Not really interested in hunting them now.  Liberty mountain, tupso pass, ditney, I think  it was area 10

I also have heard that back in the day the regs were incredibly liberal for goats....like over the counter and maybe even two tags in some areas?

I can't imagine we'd be where we are today if we hadn't hammered populations 40+ years ago. These are all compounding effects after all. Shooting nannies might be the last straw, but it's not the root issue, ight not have a root issue at all. It's a habitat dependent species with low fecundity and their habitat is incredibly fragile to changing temperatures and season shifts. Add it all together and it's a recipe for collapse

[Rainier10]

Lots of factors play a role but we need to control what we can. As hunters/conservationists making sure we shoot billies should be our number one goal, not “filling a tag”