FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WA GOAT HUNTERS - STOP SHOOTING NANNIES!!!

[Sneaky Squirrel]

Lots of factors play a role but we need to control what we can. As hunters/conservationists making sure we shoot billies should be our number one goal, not “filling a tag”

I agree with trying to harvest only a billy but the reality of never getting another opportunity in WA to hunt goats, i bet that plays into people shooting nannies. I would put this more on the department for offering tags. If the herd can't handle a nannie getting harvested, there should be a season. Reminds me of the mule deer herd in central WA with there doe tags.

[dwils233]

Lots of factors play a role but we need to control what we can. As hunters/conservationists making sure we shoot billies should be our number one goal, not “filling a tag”

I agree with trying to harvest only a billy but the reality of never getting another opportunity in WA to hunt goats, i bet that plays into people shooting nannies. I would put this more on the department for offering tags. If the herd can't handle a nannie getting harvested, there should be a season. Reminds me of the mule deer herd in central WA with there doe tags.

Bingo. It's really sad, because in an alternate world hunters could lobby for a 5 year moratorium on goat hunting to see if numbers can bump back up a bit. But we won't do that because there's no guarantee politically that we'd get the season back even if populations improved, and there's no biological guarantee that they would improve either. So everyone is just trying to get theirs now, damn the consequences.

And there's no judgement really in saying that, because if I drew a goat tag, I don't think I'd pass on it either....

[shortyp]

As much as I agree with you that we need to stop killing Nannie’s I’m not sold on it’s just a hunters fault here. I’ve been able to help out on numerous goat hunts in Wa in 4 different units never having a hard time finding mature Billy’s. This year I’ve been helping on a goat hunt in one of the baker units making multiple trip in there and have covered 80% of the unit and have seen 1 Billy. Yet the game department gave out 3 tags in this unit this season… I can go into multiple different goat units that only give out 1 tag and see 6-10 Billie’s in a weekend, when it takes hunter 20-30 years to draw a goat tag in this state and they hunt for 2 weeks and see 1 billy that could be in a unethical spot to kill it 99% of the hunters are leaving with a goat and in a mismanaged unit a lot of times thats going to be a nanny.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Would it help if the game department went back to the old way, where if a hunter didn't kill they could continue to apply? I understand the odds are terrible, but maybe a potential nanny shooter would rethink knowing they could continue to apply.

[shortyp]

Would it help if the game department went back to the old way, where if a hunter didn't kill they could continue to apply? I understand the odds are terrible, but maybe a potential nanny shooter would rethink knowing they could continue to apply.

Exactly!!

[Sneaky Squirrel]

Would it help if the game department went back to the old way, where if a hunter didn't kill they could continue to apply? I understand the odds are terrible, but maybe a potential nanny shooter would rethink knowing they could continue to apply.

Step in the right direction but i don't think it would help. Odds are beyond terrible, declining herds, lees tags and more applications, are only making odds worse to be able to draw again. 

[Whitpirate]

I wish there was the same amount of fervor against shooting cow moose.  Our herds are at catastrophic levels of decline in every unit.  Yet, the department continues to issue cow tags.
 

[Mtnwalker]

How is it that Colorado has been killing over 70 (yes seventy) nannies a year for quite some time now despite having a lower overall goat population than WA? Shouldn't their herd be disastrously crashing if hunters harvesting 3-5 nannies a year is causing this in WA?

I am all for harvesting billys only, but like others have said this is hunters getting the blame for something we are not causing. Based on studies from other states, my guess is lions are playing a major role here but they will never admit that

[fishngamereaper]

How is it that Colorado has been killing over 70 (yes seventy) nannies a year for quite some time now despite having a lower overall goat population than WA? Shouldn't their herd be disastrously crashing if hunters harvesting 3-5 nannies a year is causing this in WA?

I am all for harvesting billys only but like others have said, this is hunters getting the blame something we are not causing. My guess is lions are playing a major role here, which they will never admit

 
Absolutely should focus on billies but if someone harvests a legal animal who are we to judge.
It's also a little easier to say don't shot this or that if you've already been a successful hunter.

I think Hunter harvest is definitely a factor but a small one...it's one maybe two goats per unit..
Lots of other things in play that would probably benefit goats more.

I think it's also important to question DFW stats.
I know of harvest reports that show nannies killed but personally know of billies being killed in the units.
I don't know why DFW would mis represent harvest but they have.


Maybe we should get the guys that "planted" goats out on the OP to get back at it.
At least that herd was thriving....until the state killed em all.

[jackelope]

I don’t have the regs in front of me but are nannies legal to shoot by the regs?

Yes.

[2MANY]

Nannies can create a ton of problems.

Choose wisely.

[bear]

How is it that Colorado has been killing over 70 (yes seventy) nannies a year for quite some time now despite having a lower overall goat population than WA? Shouldn't their herd be disastrously crashing if hunters harvesting 3-5 nannies a year is causing this in WA?

I am all for harvesting billys only but like others have said, this is hunters getting the blame something we are not causing. My guess is lions are playing a major role here, which they will never admit

 
Absolutely should focus on billies but if someone harvests a legal animal who are we to judge.
It's also a little easier to say don't shot this or that if you've already been a successful hunter.

I think Hunter harvest is definitely a factor but a small one...it's one maybe two goats per unit..
Lots of other things in play that would probably benefit goats more.

I think it's also important to question DFW stats.
I know of harvest reports that show nannies killed but personally know of billies being killed in the units.
I don't know why DFW would mis represent harvest but they have.


Maybe we should get the guys that "planted" goats out on the OP to get back at it.
At least that herd was thriving....until the state killed em all.

   This guy gets it

[Tbar]

How is it that Colorado has been killing over 70 (yes seventy) nannies a year for quite some time now despite having a lower overall goat population than WA? Shouldn't their herd be disastrously crashing if hunters harvesting 3-5 nannies a year is causing this in WA?

I am all for harvesting billys only, but like others have said this is hunters getting the blame for something we are not causing. Based on studies from other states, my guess is lions are playing a major role here but they will never admit that

Colorado is an apples to oranges comparison. I don't see a lot of conservation parallels but it does make a case for assisted migration and conservation introduction. This is something that's not welcomed with open arms here,  actually quite the opposite where the feds eradicated non native goats from the op.

[Mtnwalker]

How is it that Colorado has been killing over 70 (yes seventy) nannies a year for quite some time now despite having a lower overall goat population than WA? Shouldn't their herd be disastrously crashing if hunters harvesting 3-5 nannies a year is causing this in WA?

I am all for harvesting billys only, but like others have said this is hunters getting the blame for something we are not causing. Based on studies from other states, my guess is lions are playing a major role here but they will never admit that

Colorado is an apples to oranges comparison. I don't see a lot of conservation parallels but it does make a case for assisted migration and conservation introduction. This is something that's not welcomed with open arms here,  actually quite the opposite where the feds eradicated non native goats from the op.

Can you elaborate on that a bit more? Seems to me like they're dealing with the same climate change, the same (if not more) recreational pressure in the high country, and about to be dealing with the same bans on predator and hound hunting that we already are. As far as I know they haven't been translocated since the 70's. Apples to oranges in what manner?

[Tbar]

I truly wish more hunters took the time to learn management decision trees and reasoning behind structures of opportunities.  Those that have the strongest opinions seem to have dedicated the most time to become informed. Actions have consequences, period.  The reason for allowing nanny harvest goes well beyond biology and deep into the ability to enforce on a remote landscape.  It's not impossible but a balance. The framework that Rice and Harris drew up and which currently informs managers has a heavily weighted male preference, period. So those that deviate from male selection with clear information and instructions to the contrary are creating impacts.  Those impacts can be and likely are generational. Meaning our kids or grandkids may not have the opportunity to chase these majestic creatures.  So if fulfilling a dedicated outcome to harvest (and you make a conscious decision to harvest a nanny)is your goal regardless of the non legal consequences then we will all feel those short and long term impacts collectively.  Those who question this thought need only to reflect on the recent actions of the policy body of the WDFW in regards to spring bear without a conservation necessity.  Here there is absolutely a conservation necessity.  Overvalued