FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WA GOAT HUNTERS - STOP SHOOTING NANNIES!!!

[shanevg]

Been a while since I've posted, but I'm just royally pissed off about the nannies getting killed by WA hunters this year and in recent years in WA state. 

I just heard that the Baker tags are probably gone for good after yet another nanny was shot last week.  This following a year last year when 4 nannies were shot out of 6 total goat harvests. 

Please for the love of God, stop applying for goat tags if you aren't ready for a goat hunt!
If you do draw a goat tag, please, please, please, please please please (can I say that enough) make sure you're shooting a billy if you harvest a goat.  There is absolutely no excuse in any circumstance to shoot a nanny with WA goat herd numbers suffering the way they are right now. 

While we're at it - let's bust a few myths about goats.
1. There is no such thing as a "dry nanny".  Kid survival rates in a HEALTHY herd (which our WA herds are not) is 20%.  If you see a nanny during hunting season with no kid, it's more often than not, the result of their kid dying, not a "dry" nanny. 
2. Research has very clearly shown in fact that goat fecundity INCREASES with age.  (i.e. the older the nanny, the better chance they are to birth a kid) and kid survival is 3-4x higher for older goats (7 years old +) as opposed to younger goats. 
3. Learn how to age goats.  I've seen at least 2 nannies in recent years where the hunter claims they are 10-12 years old and "dry".  Like sheep, not all rings are age rings.  Every little line on a horn does not indicate a year of age.  Ultimately, you don't need to be able to age a goat to hunt them, but don't justify an idiotic decision to yourself by trying to convince yourself that it's an "old" or "dry" goat and you are therefore justified in shooting this nanny.  You aren't.

No animal other than maybe a bear is as hard to identify male vs. female as is a goat, and no other animal is as susceptible to overharvest and female harvest as goat herds.  If you are going to draw tag, you are part of the conservation movement, you owe it not just to yourself but all other hunters and anyone who cares about the species to do your due diligence in sex identification.  If there is any doubt, don't pull the trigger.  It's better to eat tag soup than shoot a nanny by a long shot!

If we have any goat tags left next year, I'd strongly encourage anyone considering to apply to take a good long hard look at yourself in the mirror.  These goat hunts have always been hard and difficult and that was when herds were doing well.  I now see 20-30 goats on a good trip in areas where 5 years ago I saw 80-100.  Finding a billy has gone from a gimme to a real challenge.  Most units in the state does not have outfitters so if you're going to be in over your head, maybe put in for points only for a while and hope these herds can rebound! 

And if you are a tag holder this year, PLEASE DON'T SHOOT A NANNY!!!

[Rainier10]

So just to clarify……

But seriously this is very important. @jackelope was going to eat his tag before shooting a nanny. Before shooting his goat we watched it for quite awhile comparing all kinds of photos and diagrams. He wouldn’t shoot until we confirmed like four or five sure signs it was a Billy.  Goat hunting is tough and needs to be taken seriously. This is a hunt that is more about shooting the right goat than shooting a goat.

[shanevg]

There are LOTs of resources available to help with idenification.

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/hunting/goathunting/pdfs/goat_long_quiz_for_web.pdf

https://exomtngear.com/blogs/article/billy-or-nanny-how-to-identify-mountain-goats

[jackelope]

I’d sing this from the mountain tops. People complain about no goat tags. This is why. Biggest contributor to no goat tags is hunters killing Nannies.

[GOcougsHunter]

I take the Mountain Goat ID test every year.  I do pretty well on it.  But, as everyone above states... Being in the field is so much different than taking an on line test.   I have been around goats for over 40 years.  It is beyond difficult to ID them correctly unless you are close.

If you get the chance all, read the book "A Beast the Color of Winter"  Very very enlightening.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Couldn't agree more. Hard to see why you would not harvest a billy on a OIL opportunity. 

Side note and hope it pertains: What is the cause for decline of the goat herds? I guess I assumed that while not biologically beneficial for the herd to shoot nannies, the tightly controlled tag numbers would take nanny harvest into account. I certainly did not expect an impact that significant ( to be fair i had no idea that many hunters were taking nannies, it seems counter intuitive). Is there any other reason for the over 50 percent drop in herd numbers?

[Timber]

I couldn't agree more Shane.

[GOcougsHunter]

Couldn't agree more. Hard to see why you would not harvest a billy on a OIL opportunity. 

Side note and hope it pertains: What is the cause for decline of the goat herds? I guess I assumed that while not biologically beneficial for the herd to shoot nannies, the tightly controlled tag numbers would take nanny harvest into account. I certainly did not expect an impact that significant ( to be fair i had no idea that many hunters were taking nannies, it seems counter intuitive). Is there any other reason for the over 50 percent drop in herd numbers?

Game Status and Trend reports every year by the WDFW has some insight.  While not even closely complete, it does speak to some of the things they are looking at.
I think predation is having a greater role than is currently being communicated.  (Just the opinion of an arm chair biologist with no training whatsoever)

[MADMAX]

Pretty soon it will be the grizzlies did it

[RB]

Amen! In 2016, after a few conversations with you and others on this site, I did not pull the trigger till a nutsack was seen through my spotting scope! The tag is now no longer available due to low goat numbers, and the last guy to have it ate his tag because he could not get close enough to a Billy.

[storyteller]

I wish I still had  my mountain goat regs from , I think it was 1977, back then there were tons  of goat units, the  unit I  hunted was  up by Mount Ditney, another  hunter's parents posted a wood sign about him,  he was hunting never came back, never found  either.  There was lots of goats, these were good units to hunt.  It is probably why they  got rid  of the units.   More units to hunt, less people in state, I was 22 at the time, no social media, no  videos to watch, I got my goat, yes it is a nanny.  I have not put in for another  goat tag but I could, mine was not a OIL.  Not really interested in hunting them now.  Liberty mountain, tupso pass, ditney, I think  it was area 10

[GWP]

I don’t have the regs in front of me but are nannies legal to shoot by the regs?

[storyteller]

back in the day of my tag it  was.

[Houndhunter]

What's killing the goats off? It's been a quite awhile since I've spent time in the state where goats live but I've seen this topic brought up several times. I would assume if hunters killing nannies is detrimental in specific areas then they wouldn't allow any season. Going back to when I hunted goat rocks wilderness it was a joke how few tags they would issue compared to a huge goat population yet I'd still hear people say don't shoot a nanny.... And I'm sure things are different now and maybe the populations aren't what I used to witness but is hunters shooting nannies really an issue or is it something else causing a decline to the goat herds?

[Dan-o]

Somewhere on a couple of the recent goat threads, there was a chart/graph that showed the effect of shooting nannies vs shooting Billies.

It really makes it clear to a non-goat guy like me just how damaging it is to shoot Nannies.

If anyone has it, it would be a great add to this thread.