FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WA GOAT HUNTERS - STOP SHOOTING NANNIES!!!

[blacktailer]

Well Shane…..it looks like all of the Baker units are gone.  I’d be amazed if there is ever a hunt in any of these units again in our lifetime.  Sad deal for sure.  Lots of factors, but the one hunters can control, failed miserably.  Shooting Nannie’s was a huge factor.
“Pausing harvest promotes maximum survival of adult mountain goats and eliminates the potential inadvertent harvest of adult female goats, which are the most important drivers of long-term population trajectory.”

[Limhangerslayer]

I wonder if black bears don’t kill more kids than people give them credit for. Bear numbers sure don’t seem to be hurting.

goats hunters are the least of the goats problems I believe.  Shooting nannies doesn’t help but that is not the main problem.  There used to be 25 tags for the tatoosh unit alone.  There’s problems they don’t want to admit to.

[HillHound]

Hopefully somebody lets the cougars know that we are pausing harvest. Probably should give them a heads up to stop killing the nannies too! So ridiculous they want to manage us hunters right out of the equation but yet they don’t want to address the ridiculous predator problem That is obviously causing this major decline.

[MR5x5]

I see nothing in that advisory indicating a high Nannie harvest...? Just deflective words saying inadvertent killing of Nannies would be bad.  No mention of predator pressure though as that would not be in alignment with the WDFWs max predator campaign. This is just shutting down more opportunity as a result of mismanagement which is just fine with this department.

[LDennis24]

Oddly enough, if you look at mortality of mountain goats in this state for the last 10 yrs, WDFW is at the top! They killed how many from the Olympic Mountains? What kind of predators did they have in the Olympics? Nothing? So they relocated them all to be fodder for cougars in the Cascades. Which in turn habituated the cougars to pursue goats more often, because for a while there it was damn easy to catch one. ( the ones from the Olympics) and now we have a problem with ALL of our goat populations... 🤦         

[Mtnwalker]

Oddly enough, if you look at mortality of mountain goats in this state for the last 10 yrs, WDFW is at the top! They killed how many from the Olympic Mountains? What kind of predators did they have in the Olympics? Nothing? So they relocated them all to be fodder for cougars in the Cascades. Which in turn habituated the cougars to pursue goats more often, because for a while there it was damn easy to catch one. ( the ones from the Olympics) and now we have a problem with ALL of our goat populations... 🤦         

There are plenty of cats and bears in the Olympics too but I get your point and don't disagree

[GOcougsHunter]

It wouldn't be a leap to correlate the transplanted and confused Olympic goats getting easily picked off while they were looking for suitable terrain and bands.  With a couple of bears or cougars getting a taste/preference of mountain goat meat and focusing in on all the goats for a while.   

[LDennis24]

Oddly enough, if you look at mortality of mountain goats in this state for the last 10 yrs, WDFW is at the top! They killed how many from the Olympic Mountains? What kind of predators did they have in the Olympics? Nothing? So they relocated them all to be fodder for cougars in the Cascades. Which in turn habituated the cougars to pursue goats more often, because for a while there it was damn easy to catch one. ( the ones from the Olympics) and now we have a problem with ALL of our goat populations... 🤦         

There are plenty of cats and bears in the Olympics too but I get your point and don't disagree

I was just throwing it out there as I have not heard of cats being in the Olympics. I know from alot of friends in Idaho that when wolves started coming through the elk didn't know what to do about them as they weren't like house dogs. They couldn't stomp and snort at them. The wolves just kept coming and would take them out. It was a learning curve and now the new generation elk herds know how to handle the wolves.

[Practical Approach]

It is pretty well documented that mountain goat translocation success is pretty low.  For many of the reasons mentioned already.  There is a lot that is unknown right now due to the difficulty of studying mountain goats.  We know shooting nannies is not good and is avoidable.  What are the impacts of predators?  What is the impact of increased recreation in mountain goat habitat?  Does this push goats into habitat that they normally wouldn't use?  Increased susceptiblity to predation?  Reduction in habitat quality?   IDK.  There are a lot of unanswered questions currently. 

[The scout]

It’s all about the low hanging fruit, and hunters are exactly that.

[jackelope]

It’s all about the low hanging fruit, and hunters are exactly that.

Exactly.  Hunters are the one easy thing to control. Shooting Nannie’s is a problem. It’s not as big a problem as cougars, but it’s super easy for wdfw to control and take that negative out of the equation.

[bearpaw]

In Idaho we have a long cougar season with hounds, most areas are Dec 1 to March 31, some areas are a month longer, some areas anyone can buy two tags, and boot hunters have most of the year to shoot them. We still have too many cougar! IDFG collared deer in a few units to study cause of mortality, roughly 30% were killed by cougar, the proposal this year is to add another month of hound hunting in those areas.

Idaho bear season is open to bait and hounds in most units. There are also numerous units where you can take two bear by any method. There are a few units not open to bait or hounds, and those areas have the highest bear numbers. (at sportsman's request, these are sort of trophy bear units)

Idaho wolf season is very long and year round in many units, hunters can buy 5 wolf tags, trappers can buy more wolf tags, trapping season is long too, however a wolf loving judge in Missoula recently closed part of the wolf trapping season, hoping the Trump Administration overturns that decision along with wolf protection in all states.

My main point is the real problem for Washington goats is that the Washington Wildlife Commission is managing them! This Commission refuses to manage predators, they allowed the caribou to be wiped completely out by predators, there was no caribou hunting season to blame hunters, and they will allow the same to happen with goats.

[HillHound]

In Idaho we have a long cougar season with hounds, most areas are Dec 1 to March 31, some areas are a month longer, some areas anyone can buy two tags, and boot hunters have most of the year to shoot them. We still have too many cougar! IDFG collared deer in a few units to study cause of mortality, roughly 30% were killed by cougar, the proposal this year is to add another month of hound hunting in those areas.

Idaho bear season is open to bait and hounds in most units. There are also numerous units where you can take two bear by any method. There are a few units not open to bait or hounds, and those areas have the highest bear numbers. (at sportsman's request, these are sort of trophy bear units)

Idaho wolf season is very long and year round in many units, hunters can buy 5 wolf tags, trappers can buy more wolf tags, trapping season is long too, however a wolf loving judge in Missoula recently closed part of the wolf trapping season, hoping the Trump Administration overturns that decision along with wolf protection in all states.

My main point is the real problem for Washington goats is that the Washington Wildlife Commission is managing them! This Commission refuses to manage predators, they allowed the caribou to be wiped completely out by predators, there was no caribou hunting season to blame hunters, and they will allow the same to happen with goats.

Agree 100%.

[BULLBLASTER]

In Idaho we have a long cougar season with hounds, most areas are Dec 1 to March 31, some areas are a month longer, some areas anyone can buy two tags, and boot hunters have most of the year to shoot them. We still have too many cougar! IDFG collared deer in a few units to study cause of mortality, roughly 30% were killed by cougar, the proposal this year is to add another month of hound hunting in those areas.

Idaho bear season is open to bait and hounds in most units. There are also numerous units where you can take two bear by any method. There are a few units not open to bait or hounds, and those areas have the highest bear numbers. (at sportsman's request, these are sort of trophy bear units)

Idaho wolf season is very long and year round in many units, hunters can buy 5 wolf tags, trappers can buy more wolf tags, trapping season is long too, however a wolf loving judge in Missoula recently closed part of the wolf trapping season, hoping the Trump Administration overturns that decision along with wolf protection in all states.

My main point is the real problem for Washington goats is that the Washington Wildlife Commission is managing them! This Commission refuses to manage predators, they allowed the caribou to be wiped completely out by predators, there was no caribou hunting season to blame hunters, and they will allow the same to happen with goats.

If i remember correctly, wdfw used population data from IDFG to validate their estimates without considering the take season in idaho. Idaho has similar densities to wdfw estimates, but with much more liberal take and seasons. I think that should point to hunter harvest (and conflict, roadkill, etc) essentially operating in the surplus population or animals that would die or be killed regardless. Good luck convincing wdfw of this though. Sorry for the derail.

[Mtnwalker]

In Idaho we have a long cougar season with hounds, most areas are Dec 1 to March 31, some areas are a month longer, some areas anyone can buy two tags, and boot hunters have most of the year to shoot them. We still have too many cougar! IDFG collared deer in a few units to study cause of mortality, roughly 30% were killed by cougar, the proposal this year is to add another month of hound hunting in those areas.

Idaho bear season is open to bait and hounds in most units. There are also numerous units where you can take two bear by any method. There are a few units not open to bait or hounds, and those areas have the highest bear numbers. (at sportsman's request, these are sort of trophy bear units)

Idaho wolf season is very long and year round in many units, hunters can buy 5 wolf tags, trappers can buy more wolf tags, trapping season is long too, however a wolf loving judge in Missoula recently closed part of the wolf trapping season, hoping the Trump Administration overturns that decision along with wolf protection in all states.

My main point is the real problem for Washington goats is that the Washington Wildlife Commission is managing them! This Commission refuses to manage predators, they allowed the caribou to be wiped completely out by predators, there was no caribou hunting season to blame hunters, and they will allow the same to happen with goats.

If i remember correctly, wdfw used population data from IDFG to validate their estimates without considering the take season in idaho. Idaho has similar densities to wdfw estimates, but with much more liberal take and seasons. I think that should point to hunter harvest (and conflict, roadkill, etc) essentially operating in the surplus population or animals that would die or be killed regardless. Good luck convincing wdfw of this though. Sorry for the derail.

He's alive! I was wondering  Also, great point and not a derail