Free: Contests & Raffles.
So for all of you who think old guy was wrong, what reason did the skirt boy have for coming around the counter to get in old guys face and initiate the confrontation? Why didn't he stay behind the counter?
I'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.Remind me again; who's the bully?
Dealing with a father suffering mental decline has really opened my eyes to how many people walking around on a daily basis are probably dealing with similar issues. He was always one of the friendliest most outgoing people I knew, never rude or confrontational. Over the course of the last year he has become irritable, difficult, and outright confrontational at times. His old self would be appalled by who he has become. He still functions fine and it's not like I can force him to stay home because he might piss off the cashier at Home Depot or something, but I should hope the people he encounters throughout his day can have the compassion and common decency to deal with him being an ass without getting physical. Bottom line, skirt boy is a coward plain and simple. His wife's shop now gets to pay the price for his insecurity
Quote from: Bullkllr on December 02, 2024, 09:37:27 AMI'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.Remind me again; who's the bully?I mean someone refusing to leave a business is trespassing. According to the stand your ground policy you have no duty to retreat and are legally allowed to use "reasonable force" if you feel threatened especially in place of business or in your home. When you square up and make a fist, I would interpret that as a threat of violence. Here is where you can de-escalate or use your reasonable force. I would consider the push reasonable force. Since the "punch to the groin" isn't seen on the camera but is admitted to by the one on the ground, reasonable force is in question when the skirt man does his ground and pound. He is being charged with 4th degree assault according to the article that was posted which does seem warranted considering how this situation ended. Although the older man could just as easily be charged with trespassing. "Washington courts have consistently upheld our right to remain in a lawful location with “no duty to retreat.” Flight, however reasonable as an alternative to violence, is not required. While the wisdom of such a policy may be open to debate, the policy is one of long standing and reflects the notion that one lawfully where he is entitled to be should not be made to yield and flee by a show of unlawful force against him. See State v. Williams, 81 Wn.App. 738 (1996)." I'd say clearly it wasn't handled well by either party. Shouldn't be squaring up if you don't got a good base and you shouldn't be punching folks on the ground if you wanna stay free.
Quote from: dylan34_36 on December 02, 2024, 10:07:56 AMQuote from: Bullkllr on December 02, 2024, 09:37:27 AMI'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.Remind me again; who's the bully?I mean someone refusing to leave a business is trespassing. According to the stand your ground policy you have no duty to retreat and are legally allowed to use "reasonable force" if you feel threatened especially in place of business or in your home. When you square up and make a fist, I would interpret that as a threat of violence. Here is where you can de-escalate or use your reasonable force. I would consider the push reasonable force. Since the "punch to the groin" isn't seen on the camera but is admitted to by the one on the ground, reasonable force is in question when the skirt man does his ground and pound. He is being charged with 4th degree assault according to the article that was posted which does seem warranted considering how this situation ended. Although the older man could just as easily be charged with trespassing. "Washington courts have consistently upheld our right to remain in a lawful location with “no duty to retreat.” Flight, however reasonable as an alternative to violence, is not required. While the wisdom of such a policy may be open to debate, the policy is one of long standing and reflects the notion that one lawfully where he is entitled to be should not be made to yield and flee by a show of unlawful force against him. See State v. Williams, 81 Wn.App. 738 (1996)." I'd say clearly it wasn't handled well by either party. Shouldn't be squaring up if you don't got a good base and you shouldn't be punching folks on the ground if you wanna stay free.Agree with pretty much everything you mention, except the part regarding the old man's posturing being a legit threat. There's a 5-letter word for what the skirt-wearer looks like in being "threatened" by that old man enough to do what he did. I'd mention it, but I don't think it would get by the censors.
What I saw is a bully get put in his place. I also think comparing this super grown man to a child or intellectually disabled person is insulting to those who are young or intellectually disabled. Theres a reason there are protections for juveniles and disabled persons. I do believe the elder man was asked to leave and didn't. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure thats trespassing. Just my 2 cents.
I swear this message board could escalate a fart in a whirlwind into a nuclear bomb.