Age limits on handgun sales violate Second Amendment

[LDennis24]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-court-rules-atf-age-limits-handgun-sales-violate-second-amendment

[CarbonHunter]

Unfortunate that this lawsuit will need to be brought against a state like Washington and go all the way through the courts until it gets to the Supreme Court before we will benefit from the ruling. And the Supreme Court would have to rule in agreement with the 5th circuit’s decision.

[Chesapeake]

As of yet it seems the Supreme court puts out decisions with standards for the lower courts to follow in their review of prior decisions and then the lower courts disregard the Supreme courts decisions and allow the unconstitutional laws to continue.
There is no relief, just an endless mire of legal nonsense while we all have our rights that are supposed to be protected by the constitution infringed upon by political organizations, politicians and judges.

[KNOPHISH]

I know it’s the process to challenge but Unconstitutional gun laws should go right to the top not wait years and years of infringing our Rights. Or keep it off the books until it goes to court not put it in then fight it. Maybe if lower courts abided by it instead of whatever the hell they do. Maybe a Constitutional test before it even gets that far. It’s so crazy where is common sense.

[chukardogs]

If a person is old enough to die for his or her country in battle, he or she should be old enough to buy any gun. They should also then be able to buy alcohol and therefore be old enough to go to prison for the rest of their natural born lives if they use that gun or alcohol in the commission of a crime. They're considered an adult in the eyes of the court at 18. Maybe it's time we take the gloves off and treat 18 year olds like the adults they are. If as a country, we're fine with sending an 18 or 19 year old to the front lines to be killed then so be it. If they're an adult, give them the rights of one and make them act like it!

[Special T]

If a person is old enough to die for his or her country in battle, he or she should be old enough to buy any gun. They should also then be able to buy alcohol and therefore be old enough to go to prison for the rest of their natural born lives if they use that gun or alcohol in the commission of a crime. They're considered an adult in the eyes of the court at 18. Maybe it's time we take the gloves off and treat 18 year olds like the adults they are. If as a country, we're fine with sending an 18 or 19 year old to the front lines to be killed then so be it. If they're an adult, give them the rights of one and make them act like it!

If I'm not mistaken 21 was the age of adulthood until the Feds needed to feel people into the meat grinder that was Vietnam.  It was why the voting age had to be dropped to 18. I think a debate as to what the age of adult hood resides would be good and ALL rights and responsibilities should be confered.

[chukardogs]

I wrote what I wrote for conversation sake. I didn't actually know until I looked up what age is considered an adult by the courts. The Google machine says 18. I've always thought the idea that  an 18 year old can go to war but he can't have a beer is seriously messed up. Just flat out ridiculous and asinine!
 If society at some point says, 18 years of age isn't an adult and the rules and such are changed to reflect this belief, fine. But until such point, telling an 18 year old, you're expendable but, you can't buy a gun, you can't have a beer is just wrong.   

[Platensek-po]

I wrote what I wrote for conversation sake. I didn't actually know until I looked up what age is considered an adult by the courts. The Google machine says 18. I've always thought the idea that  an 18 year old can go to war but he can't have a beer is seriously messed up. Just flat out ridiculous and asinine!
 If society at some point says, 18 years of age isn't an adult and the rules and such are changed to reflect this belief, fine. But until such point, telling an 18 year old, you're expendable but, you can't buy a gun, you can't have a beer is just wrong.

I agree with you but I’m pretty sure 18yr olds in the military can drink on base…

[baldopepper]

I wrote what I wrote for conversation sake. I didn't actually know until I looked up what age is considered an adult by the courts. The Google machine says 18. I've always thought the idea that  an 18 year old can go to war but he can't have a beer is seriously messed up. Just flat out ridiculous and asinine!
 If society at some point says, 18 years of age isn't an adult and the rules and such are changed to reflect this belief, fine. But until such point, telling an 18 year old, you're expendable but, you can't buy a gun, you can't have a beer is just wrong.

I agree with you but I’m pretty sure 18yr olds in the military can drink on base…

During the Viet Nam Era you.could neither vote or drink until 21 but you could sure get drafted and sent off to fight

[Boss .300 winmag]

I wrote what I wrote for conversation sake. I didn't actually know until I looked up what age is considered an adult by the courts. The Google machine says 18. I've always thought the idea that  an 18 year old can go to war but he can't have a beer is seriously messed up. Just flat out ridiculous and asinine!
 If society at some point says, 18 years of age isn't an adult and the rules and such are changed to reflect this belief, fine. But until such point, telling an 18 year old, you're expendable but, you can't buy a gun, you can't have a beer is just wrong.

I agree with you but I’m pretty sure 18yr olds in the military can drink on base…

That ended before 1987 for the Navy.😉

But the golf courses had beer machines.🤣

[JimmyHoffa]

If a person is old enough to die for his or her country in battle, he or she should be old enough to buy any gun. They should also then be able to buy alcohol and therefore be old enough to go to prison for the rest of their natural born lives if they use that gun or alcohol in the commission of a crime. They're considered an adult in the eyes of the court at 18. Maybe it's time we take the gloves off and treat 18 year olds like the adults they are. If as a country, we're fine with sending an 18 or 19 year old to the front lines to be killed then so be it. If they're an adult, give them the rights of one and make them act like it!

If I'm not mistaken 21 was the age of adulthood until the Feds needed to feel people into the meat grinder that was Vietnam.  It was why the voting age had to be dropped to 18. I think a debate as to what the age of adult hood resides would be good and ALL rights and responsibilities should be confered.

And around that time, I don't think there was an age associated with purchasing firearms.  One of the neighbors said he would order guns out of catalogs or at the hardware store with summer job money ( mowing lawns, bucking hay, hauling salmon).
Think he got a 30-30, a milsurp Springfield 06 and a 1911.  Think the 1911 was like $30 plus shipping.  I think this was around 1962-5.

[baldopepper]

Brother sent a sako home to me from Finland while he was there in 1962.  No problems, just had to get good shipping insurance. I still have the gun.

[chukardogs]

Wichita Kansas, 82-86,  you could have beer with 3.2 % alcohol in town at 18 or 19 and we could buy any beer we wanted in Oklahoma. I don't think it's that way today but not positive. It would be interesting to know if the 18 or 19 year old's at the Joint base Lewis/McChord south of Tacoma can drink on base.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Wichita Kansas, 82-86,  you could have beer with 3.2 % alcohol in town at 18 or 19 and we could buy any beer we wanted in Oklahoma. I don't think it's that way today but not positive. It would be interesting to know if the 18 or 19 year old's at the Joint base Lewis/McChord south of Tacoma can drink on base.

They can’t the military as a whole as gone with 21. Unless your in a foreign port where the age limit is less, but don’t come back to the ship all jacked up or there will be hell to pay.🤣

[CarbonHunter]

The scary thing is how liberals want to lower the voting age to get more minors to vote their way. I bet if the courts held the voting age to the same as owning a firearm they may change their mind. Honestly the 26th amendment sets a pretty clear age as to when the constitution applies to people.

[Special T]

The scary thing is how liberals want to lower the voting age to get more minors to vote their way. I bet if the courts held the voting age to the same as owning a firearm they may change their mind. Honestly the 26th amendment sets a pretty clear age as to when the constitution applies to people.

I think this discrepancy is what needs to be discussed. Either your an adult or not. ALL rights must be conferred at 1 age.  the B tardation of dropping it to 18 was political and voting rights was inferred by the courts. I'm not sure why gun ownership isn't the same... But who knows perhaps that is where we are heading

[CarbonHunter]

I agree. Adulthood or majority as it is referred to in the constitutional context should apply at the same age for everything and everyone. If your tried as an adult at 18 you should receive all rights of the constitution at 18 if you so choose to exercise them.

I also feel that if courts are giving in to the traditional history of gun ownership as directed by the SCOTUS that we should only have to argue that semiautomatic firearms have always been available to the citizens of the land since they were invented. Essentially ending the Washington ban.

[PsoasHunter]

Is every right tied to adulthood? Should the driving age be increased to 18? Cars kill more people than guns. 

[Bows4huntn]

Last time I looked, driving wasn’t a constitutionally protected right!

[CarbonHunter]

Driving is a privilege, just like hunting. There is no constitutional right to do either. Rights granted by the constitution apply to those of age 18 unless otherwise stated in the constitution.

[Moose Master]

The scary thing is how liberals want to lower the voting age to get more minors to vote their way. I bet if the courts held the voting age to the same as owning a firearm they may change their mind. Honestly the 26th amendment sets a pretty clear age as to when the constitution applies to people.

For voting only and in 71 things happen real quick.  States did lower drinking age but after years of stupidity age for drinking was raised.  Lots of extra people died because of lower drinking age.  Including innocent bystanders at the wrong place at the wrong time

[Chesapeake]

Alcohol and other drug consumption aren’t rights and I don't think fit in this conversation.
I don't see the connection between war and beer.

[Macs B]

Several years ago I was asked to represent a young man who had been tried as an adult.  Upon his acquittal we sued for his rights to be instated at the age he was declared by the court to be and adult.  At the age of 15 years he would have been legally able to vote, drink, serve in the military etc.  I honestly think we would have won the case if he could have kept himself out of trouble.  He was later arrested and convicted as a minor subsequently losing all of his rights.

[callturner]

#1. Hunting is a God given right that people have been doing since they landed here. Before regulation.  I wish people would care more about our legislators who are regulating us under there State laws and taking all of our rights away. Be it magazine bans, types of firearms, the right to purchase or sell things, Closing down small businesses with liberal regulations. The list goes on. A hand full of people make "Laws" to tell us what is "Legal" , yet I can drive 15 miles east to Idaho and watch people purchase firearms and do business as normal and not be breaking any federal laws. Wake up Washington!!!

[chukardogs]

Alcohol and other drug consumption aren’t rights and I don't think fit in this conversation.
I don't see the connection between war and beer.

There is no correlation between war and beer. War is bad, beer is good!
 However IMO, there's a serious flaw in the idea that an 18 or 19 year old can go to war for this country and lose their life but can't legally drink a beer. Seriously! I'm not saying the law should change to let the 18 or 19 year old drink. If society believes an 18 or 19 year old can't be trusted to know when to stop drinking, maybe that 18 or 19 year old shouldn't be allowed to represent this country on the battle field until he or she has reached an age that society deems to be adulthood.
 To the Constitution and as far as the 18 year old being able to bear arms. The constitution doesn't differentiate between a single shot Musket and a Glock 19, therefore the Supreme court will have to. I'd be willing to bet that the liberal view and argument will be that the law doesn't stop the 18 year old from buying a firearm, it just puts a restriction on what firearm he or she can buy. The right will say, the Supreme court doesn't get to add verbiage to the constitution and make a distinction between that single shot musket and the Glock 19.
 If an 18 year old can't buy a beer because of public safety concerns, the Supreme court could be persuaded to accept and decide for public safety purposes that they also can't buy a weapon that would be easy to conceal on their way to class because some 18 year olds are still in high school. Huh, that's probably something the people writing the constitution in 1787 didn't have to take into account.
 Who here thinks the writers of the constitution could have possibly foreseen the innovations in weaponry that would occur over the next 230+ years?
 Everyone wants to hold up the constitution when it benefits their argument yet the constitution's been amended 27 times since it was written and I'm sure it'll be amended many more over the next few hundred years. Of course, that's only if it isn't just trashed and tossed to the wolves because we've dumbed down our society to the point that people can't be expected to use basic common sense and care about their fellow man.

[CarbonHunter]

Several years ago I was asked to represent a young man who had been tried as an adult.  Upon his acquittal we sued for his rights to be instated at the age he was declared by the court to be and adult.  At the age of 15 years he would have been legally able to vote, drink, serve in the military etc.  I honestly think we would have won the case if he could have kept himself out of trouble.  He was later arrested and convicted as a minor subsequently losing all of his rights.

Shame you weren’t able to push this case through. There are lots of laws out there that can’t pass the “what if the shoe were on the other foot” test.

It amazes me how the left is constantly fighting to diminish the 2nd amendment but then turns around and says the constitutional rights of illegal immigrants are being violated…

[MADMAX]

I’ve always wondered why the second amendment is treated by our liberal friends to be less important than the rest of our constitutional amendments

It’s treated like a second class amendment to the constitution
It’s a dang shame


Seems pretty clear it scares them

The Second Amendment was created to guarantee citizens the right to keep and bear arms, primarily to ensure the ability to defend themselves against tyranny, protect their personal safety, and participate in a well-regulated militia, as the Founding Fathers feared a powerful government could potentially oppress the people without a well-armed citizenry to resist; essentially, it was intended to safeguard individual liberty by allowing citizens to defend themselves against potential government overreach and criminal activity

[Moose Master]

I’ve always wondered why the second amendment is treated by our liberal friends to be less important than the rest of our constitutional amendments

It’s treated like a second class amendment to the constitution
It’s a dang shame


Seems pretty clear it scares them

The Second Amendment was created to guarantee citizens the right to keep and bear arms, primarily to ensure the ability to defend themselves against tyranny, protect their personal safety, and participate in a well-regulated militia, as the Founding Fathers feared a powerful government could potentially oppress the people without a well-armed citizenry to resist; essentially, it was intended to safeguard individual liberty by allowing citizens to defend themselves against potential government overreach and criminal activity

You were doing great until you included "criminal activity "  Madison provided the final version and I  don't see your additional content. SCOTUS will decide this.

[MADMAX]

I’ve always wondered why the second amendment is treated by our liberal friends to be less important than the rest of our constitutional amendments

It’s treated like a second class amendment to the constitution
It’s a dang shame


Seems pretty clear it scares them

The Second Amendment was created to guarantee citizens the right to keep and bear arms, primarily to ensure the ability to defend themselves against tyranny, protect their personal safety, and participate in a well-regulated militia, as the Founding Fathers feared a powerful government could potentially oppress the people without a well-armed citizenry to resist; essentially, it was intended to safeguard individual liberty by allowing citizens to defend themselves against potential government overreach and criminal activity

You were doing great until you included "criminal activity "  Madison provided the final version and I  don't see your additional content. SCOTUS will decide this.

It’s called paraphrasing 🥴

[James]

[timberfaller]

" Who here thinks the writers of the constitution could have possibly foreseen the innovations in weaponry that would occur over the next 230+ years?" quote chukardogs


I do!   Based on what "they've" seen in innovations of weaponry in their time.  They knew times would continue to change, its one of the reasons it took 3 days of debates to form the "wordings" of the 2A.

Every "weapon" WE the PEOPLE have or do own, at one time was a military weapon! There is a point of time in our history, the PEOPLE were better armed then our military was!

That's why you don't find type of action, caliber, looks, etc in the 2A wording.  "A Republic madam, if you can keep it" Benjamin Franklin

Democracy's always lead to Tyrants!

FYI, gun control (loss of Freedoms)started in 1934.

Never a D!!

[CarbonHunter]

Yep at the time the constitution was written citizens could have all weapons available at the time. And when a citizen miss used the weapon or committed other crimes they were punished up to and including death.

Today government is taking the weapons from law abiding citizens and are refusing to punish the criminals. The problems today are not the constitution but instead the leadership of government and the laws they are creating and the laws they are choosing not to enforce.

Now the SCOTUS has said we cannot have nuclear weapons which I feel most would agree with and if you don’t maybe you should rethink your stance. However with the exception of missiles, fighter jets, nukes and other advanced weapons the citizens have had and used the weapons of our day and they have only been abused by a small few in the grand scheme of things.

[GWP]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

[Cougartail]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

On average illegal aliens kill 24 American citizens per day. Pretty evenly split between violence and drunk driving.

If it was about safety they would be crafting bills to deport all illegals.. They're not.

[CarbonHunter]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

On average illegal aliens kill 24 American citizens per day. Pretty evenly split between violence and drunk driving.

If it was about safety they would be crafting bills to deport all illegals.. They're not.

About 200/day die of drug overdoses. But they use the argument that they are hurting themselves but then refuse to add the caveat that 50% of gun deaths are suicides in the numbers they site.

[Cougartail]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

On average illegal aliens kill 24 American citizens per day. Pretty evenly split between violence and drunk driving.

If it was about safety they would be crafting bills to deport all illegals.. They're not.

About 200/day die of drug overdoses. But they use the argument that they are hurting themselves but then refuse to add the caveat that 50% of gun deaths are suicides in the numbers they site.

Good point!

[Moose Master]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

On average illegal aliens kill 24 American citizens per day. Pretty evenly split between violence and drunk driving.

If it was about safety they would be crafting bills to deport all illegals.. They're not.

Please provide your source of the 24 American Citizens per day.  I tried finding it but can't seem to.

[Cougartail]

It slays me that alcohol related deaths, particularly vehicle related ones, get little attention. There should be a rule made that every time a firearm related death is reported they also report the number of vehicle or alcohol and drug related deaths up to that point.
I heard a report that (if I remember the date correctly) January 28 was the first firearm death in Seattle. There were certainly more alcohol/drug related or vehicle related ones before that date!
Follow the money and political fads.

On average illegal aliens kill 24 American citizens per day. Pretty evenly split between violence and drunk driving.

If it was about safety they would be crafting bills to deport all illegals.. They're not.

Please provide your source of the 24 American Citizens per day.  I tried finding it but can't seem to.

GAO report in 2017 for murders. (12  per day average.)
Mendoza who's son was killed by a drunk illegal (2011?) did the study of car fatalities and as I recall it was slightly higher than 12 a day.

Of coarse the lying scum in the media claim otherwise.. as per usual.