Coyote hunting with dogs

[brokentrail]

While I have nothing against using dogs for any kind of hunting and I have had hounds almost all of my life, I am sorry that type of content is out there for the general public to see.  Believe me when I say, they won't see it the same way that hunters do.

I’ve seen tree hugging nature shows were wolves are doing the same thing to yotes.

Agreed, the wolf lovers love watching wolves kill elk, moose, deer, etc, they think its awesome. I think perhaps sportsmen have taken the wrong path by trying to hide some realities of hunting, perhaps we would be far better off by standing by the fact that this is the exact method a pack of coyotes or wolves give to everything they kill? Its part of nature, the bigger more dominant or smarter predator prevails. In order to maintain acceptable balances of predators this type of hunting is effective and needed. One very obvious fact: the current practice of trying to justify hunting by other means simply hasn't worked.

Unfortunately, the majority of people that vote on these types of things, have no knowledge of, or interest in, what an acceptable balance of predators is on a landscape.  They expect that Wildlife commissions, and other wildlife departments, will do that, as that is their job, right?  We all know how that has worked out in a number of states.  I don't think most on this forum find that video, or others like it, appalling, cruel, etc. but again, we are a minority.  The majority of voters, even if they aren't against hunting, would vote to take away anything that allows what is in that video, in my experience/opinion.  I had bear hounds until they were outlawed, I have seen these types of debates play out with non-hunters over and over, including in my own circles of people who don't hunt.  They don't see it the way we do and they have the voting majority.  I will just continue to have the opinion that the less those types of things are posted/made public, the better off we (hunters/outdoorsman/sportsman) are.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I respect that. My opinion: it just doesn't matter in states like Washington, so many people are so far out of touch with wildlife management that nearly any anti-hunting ballot initiative will pass. Hunters are exiting Washington and moving to other hunter friendly states so fast that the chances of any hunting issue surviving a ballot initiative is declining further each year in Washington. The only chance of a change in direction for Washington is when the impacts of poor wildlife management are felt by the masses. I was going to get coyote dogs a few years ago, before I could get them Washington outlawed them, even though almost nobody was doing it. Washington also outlawed hound hunting, trapping and baiting was just outlawed. It's pretty obvious to me the current methods of justifying hunting do not work. Perhaps more videos are needed where the realities are shown and talked about and the need for them explained in further detail?

i don't disagree with you on Washington, and a few other states, at all...  TBH, I am not sure what is needed to get the masses to understand that the North American model of Wildlife Conservation is the reason we have such abundant wildlife now and that the decisions being made by people, not science, threatens that.  I feel like anything that is felt by the masses will be spun in such a way that it further limits hunting/opportunity, as that seems to be the agenda.   

[bearpaw]

While I have nothing against using dogs for any kind of hunting and I have had hounds almost all of my life, I am sorry that type of content is out there for the general public to see.  Believe me when I say, they won't see it the same way that hunters do.

I’ve seen tree hugging nature shows were wolves are doing the same thing to yotes.

Agreed, the wolf lovers love watching wolves kill elk, moose, deer, etc, they think its awesome. I think perhaps sportsmen have taken the wrong path by trying to hide some realities of hunting, perhaps we would be far better off by standing by the fact that this is the exact method a pack of coyotes or wolves give to everything they kill? Its part of nature, the bigger more dominant or smarter predator prevails. In order to maintain acceptable balances of predators this type of hunting is effective and needed. One very obvious fact: the current practice of trying to justify hunting by other means simply hasn't worked.

Unfortunately, the majority of people that vote on these types of things, have no knowledge of, or interest in, what an acceptable balance of predators is on a landscape.  They expect that Wildlife commissions, and other wildlife departments, will do that, as that is their job, right?  We all know how that has worked out in a number of states.  I don't think most on this forum find that video, or others like it, appalling, cruel, etc. but again, we are a minority.  The majority of voters, even if they aren't against hunting, would vote to take away anything that allows what is in that video, in my experience/opinion.  I had bear hounds until they were outlawed, I have seen these types of debates play out with non-hunters over and over, including in my own circles of people who don't hunt.  They don't see it the way we do and they have the voting majority.  I will just continue to have the opinion that the less those types of things are posted/made public, the better off we (hunters/outdoorsman/sportsman) are.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I respect that. My opinion: it just doesn't matter in states like Washington, so many people are so far out of touch with wildlife management that nearly any anti-hunting ballot initiative will pass. Hunters are exiting Washington and moving to other hunter friendly states so fast that the chances of any hunting issue surviving a ballot initiative is declining further each year in Washington. The only chance of a change in direction for Washington is when the impacts of poor wildlife management are felt by the masses. I was going to get coyote dogs a few years ago, before I could get them Washington outlawed them, even though almost nobody was doing it. Washington also outlawed hound hunting, trapping and baiting was just outlawed. It's pretty obvious to me the current methods of justifying hunting do not work. Perhaps more videos are needed where the realities are shown and talked about and the need for them explained in further detail?

i don't disagree with you on Washington, and a few other states, at all...  TBH, I am not sure what is needed to get the masses to understand that the North American model of Wildlife Conservation is the reason we have such abundant wildlife now and that the decisions being made by people, not science, threatens that.  I feel like anything that is felt by the masses will be spun in such a way that it further limits hunting/opportunity, as that seems to be the agenda.   

I certainly do not have a definitive answer on how to counter the trend either. It seems like hunters are always on the defense, perhaps we need to be on the offense, pushing for more hunting rather than trying to protect what's left, which hasn't been working?

[brokentrail]

While I have nothing against using dogs for any kind of hunting and I have had hounds almost all of my life, I am sorry that type of content is out there for the general public to see.  Believe me when I say, they won't see it the same way that hunters do.

I’ve seen tree hugging nature shows were wolves are doing the same thing to yotes.

Agreed, the wolf lovers love watching wolves kill elk, moose, deer, etc, they think its awesome. I think perhaps sportsmen have taken the wrong path by trying to hide some realities of hunting, perhaps we would be far better off by standing by the fact that this is the exact method a pack of coyotes or wolves give to everything they kill? Its part of nature, the bigger more dominant or smarter predator prevails. In order to maintain acceptable balances of predators this type of hunting is effective and needed. One very obvious fact: the current practice of trying to justify hunting by other means simply hasn't worked.

Unfortunately, the majority of people that vote on these types of things, have no knowledge of, or interest in, what an acceptable balance of predators is on a landscape.  They expect that Wildlife commissions, and other wildlife departments, will do that, as that is their job, right?  We all know how that has worked out in a number of states.  I don't think most on this forum find that video, or others like it, appalling, cruel, etc. but again, we are a minority.  The majority of voters, even if they aren't against hunting, would vote to take away anything that allows what is in that video, in my experience/opinion.  I had bear hounds until they were outlawed, I have seen these types of debates play out with non-hunters over and over, including in my own circles of people who don't hunt.  They don't see it the way we do and they have the voting majority.  I will just continue to have the opinion that the less those types of things are posted/made public, the better off we (hunters/outdoorsman/sportsman) are.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I respect that. My opinion: it just doesn't matter in states like Washington, so many people are so far out of touch with wildlife management that nearly any anti-hunting ballot initiative will pass. Hunters are exiting Washington and moving to other hunter friendly states so fast that the chances of any hunting issue surviving a ballot initiative is declining further each year in Washington. The only chance of a change in direction for Washington is when the impacts of poor wildlife management are felt by the masses. I was going to get coyote dogs a few years ago, before I could get them Washington outlawed them, even though almost nobody was doing it. Washington also outlawed hound hunting, trapping and baiting was just outlawed. It's pretty obvious to me the current methods of justifying hunting do not work. Perhaps more videos are needed where the realities are shown and talked about and the need for them explained in further detail?

i don't disagree with you on Washington, and a few other states, at all...  TBH, I am not sure what is needed to get the masses to understand that the North American model of Wildlife Conservation is the reason we have such abundant wildlife now and that the decisions being made by people, not science, threatens that.  I feel like anything that is felt by the masses will be spun in such a way that it further limits hunting/opportunity, as that seems to be the agenda.   

I certainly do not have a definitive answer on how to counter the trend either. It seems like hunters are always on the defense, perhaps we need to be on the offense, pushing for more hunting rather than trying to protect what's left, which hasn't been working?

You could be right and you are correct that we are doing/have done isn't working.  Also videos of wolves/cougars/bears killing livestock/pets, the misery of the calves/sheep/pet dog, plastered everywhere, so the masses understand what predators are capable of vs. the cute/furry narrative that is portrayed.  Not sure how we get those videos but I would love to see them showing up in the news, on social media and generally getting seen by the voting public.