2027 Pink Run Destroyed

[bigtex]

Well with these floods I think it's pretty much destroyed our 2027 pink run. Certainly one negative about this being a totally wild run, there's no hatchery fish to help the stock. We may be back to square one for pinks after years of record runs.

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[hunthard]

I don't know about, I have more faith in "mother nature" than I do in the WDFW.

[buglebuster]

With the sheer number of fish that return, I don’t think it will be as bad as you may think. If that was the case, the runs would be completely over for good

[cohocrazy]

They should be fine. They've been through worse floods and survived. 

[Fishmaker57]

Based on the life cycle of pinks, they will most likely be fine. By the time Pinks have reached the upper Skagit, they are ready to spawn. Given the prolonged warm fall weather, the river didn’t chill down as fast, so the eggs would have hatched before the floods. Pinks are the fastest growing salmon in the world, and they swim up out of the gravel and head to brackish water fast. Hopefully the Chinook reds didn’t scour or silt in, but time will tell.

[3nails]

 I think it will be 6 years for them to bounce back from this. The wild coho bounce back faster due to 3 and 5 year returning fish. Pinks don't have that.

[rainshadow1]

What is the guess/assumption that fish experience during a flood? Is there gps tagging? Gill mounted cameras?

[FlyFish360]

They'll be fine. If you know anything about hydrodynamics, the current at the bottom of the river is the slowest. Plus those eggs are in the gravel.

[cem3434]

They'll be fine. If you know anything about hydrodynamics, the current at the bottom of the river is the slowest. Plus those eggs are in the gravel.

  spot on and WDFW and their lack of predator control is far worse for the fish than mother nature.

[Bullkllr]

While it is part of the natural process and runs can certainly rebound, it's pretty well documented that extreme high water events can have negative effects on spawning success. You literally get scouring and shifting of gravel in some places. Events this high could be hard on existing redds from any species. While pinks (and chums) don't rear in streams, the fry don't typically emerge from the gravel until at least late winter/early spring. Not the only factor for what comes back of course, but it seems reasonable to expect some impact.

[Alchase]

Well with these floods I think it's pretty much destroyed our 2027 pink run. Certainly one negative about this being a totally wild run, there's no hatchery fish to help the stock. We may be back to square one for pinks after years of record runs.

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If needed couldn't they get stock from the Muckleshoot hatcheries 

[Henrydog]

Fish returned to Toutle after St Helens.  Flooding in a normal part of Natures cycle

[fishngamereaper]

Fish will always return.
But this flooding and run off can't not have an affect on future runs. Fry can't survive long in these water conditions. Highly likely the two year return's of pinks and coho will be impacted.

My concern is summer and fall Chinook.
Chinook impact's tend to be the driving force behind salmon season's. I think the 3-4 year outlook is going to be something we'll have to watch.....

[Bareback]

I wouldn’t worry quite yet. Pinks and coho are typically tributary spawners, kings are mostly mainstem spawners, and chum spawn everywhere. There is no doubt that these catastrophic floods scour redds but tribs don't take the beating that the mainstems do. There are other factors that affect egg to adult survival rates. A major one is ocean conditions. The PDO is cool right now which brings us the La Nina weather pattern and is correlated to higher salmon survival rates.

[Happy Gilmore]

Well with these floods I think it's pretty much destroyed our 2027 pink run. Certainly one negative about this being a totally wild run, there's no hatchery fish to help the stock. We may be back to square one for pinks after years of record runs.

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They were just fine after 1990, 1996, 1999, 2001,2,3,5,6,7,8

[Happy Gilmore]

We had pinks up in the parking lot at Fall City after the prior "wipeout" flood in a river that didn't dump hatchery anythings! WDFW is so full of their own ingredients they couldnt give you a scientific fact if they got an advanced degree with one for free.

[Happy Gilmore]

Anyone who was paid by WDFW to be an expert in anything was simply cashing a paycheck for nothing after 1993.

[Fishmaker57]

Anyone who was paid by WDFW to be an expert in anything was simply cashing a paycheck for nothing after 1993.

While everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion, this quite possible be the most ignorant statement I have seen in a while…..

[Happy Gilmore]

Anyone who was paid by WDFW to be an expert in anything was simply cashing a paycheck for nothing after 1993.

While everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion, this quite possible be the most ignorant statement I have seen in a while…..

There are some good people however, those at the management levels running budgets and making decisions have done nothing for the sportsman and women of Washington. They have however, appeased the environmentalists. They are excellent at it.

[Fishmaker57]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

[buglebuster]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

What did you do for the state??

[Boss .300 winmag]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

What did you do for the state??

He made fish, look at his forum name.🤣

[HUNTIN4SIX]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

  25 yrs making fish and putting up with the bs here.

[Fishmaker57]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

What did you do for the state??

We both worked at and managed hatcheries all over the state. I started in 1990 with the department of Fisheries, loved through the merger(which was sold as a cost saving scheme, that failed miserably) and ended up managing hatcheries for a Tribe and a PUD. The wife did basically the same, but ended up managing a resident fish hatchery for a Tribe, and managed the program that stocked Rufus Woods as well.

[Happy Gilmore]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

What did you do for the state??

We both worked at and managed hatcheries all over the state. I started in 1990 with the department of Fisheries, loved through the merger(which was sold as a cost saving scheme, that failed miserably) and ended up managing hatcheries for a Tribe and a PUD. The wife did basically the same, but ended up managing a resident fish hatchery for a Tribe, and managed the program that stocked Rufus Woods as well.

Ive volunteered at Cedar River, Issaquah, Rock Island, Rocky Reach, Chelan, Wells and Similkamene. And done fish studies with the Feds on Burbot in Lake Chelan.

My opinions are always ignorant. Forgot about helping raise fingerlings on a creek between Monroe and Sultan in 1991.

[Boss .300 winmag]

At the policy level, I agree. The liberal governors have ensured that the commission members are selected to appease the anti hunting and fishing voters of the state, which sadly, is the majority. They know which side of the bread gets buttered.

Between my wife and I, we had 60 years of doing our best to produce fish for this state, only to watch policy decisions that did its best to derail any effort to increase harvest opportunities. Hence our decision to head east, and try to forget how bad it is there now…..

What did you do for the state??

We both worked at and managed hatcheries all over the state. I started in 1990 with the department of Fisheries, loved through the merger(which was sold as a cost saving scheme, that failed miserably) and ended up managing hatcheries for a Tribe and a PUD. The wife did basically the same, but ended up managing a resident fish hatchery for a Tribe, and managed the program that stocked Rufus Woods as well.

Ive volunteered at Cedar River, Issaquah, Rock Island, Rocky Reach, Chelan, Wells and Similkamene. And done fish studies with the Feds on Burbot in Lake Chelan.

My opinions are always ignorant. Forgot about helping raise fingerlings on a creek between Monroe and Sultan in 1991.

Could you start a separate post about the burbot?

[Happy Gilmore]

The burbot study was a long time ago. I helped set traps, document locations and then go check traps. We only caughta few on drop rigs made feom weight filled pvc pipes with hooks pop riveted down the pipe

[Night goat]

They'll be fine. If you know anything about hydrodynamics, the current at the bottom of the river is the slowest. Plus those eggs are in the gravel.

That's not how that works.... it's the silt that will bury and suffocates the eggs, that's the real danger

[Fishmaker57]

You guys worry too much about mother nature; she will always take care of things in the long run. But just for the fun of it, let's throw in some science and biology. Pinks have been documented spawning in the lower Skagit as early as mid to late August, and as late as early November as high up as Bacon Creek. Obviously, those spawning high up and late did not fare as well as lower river spawners. Let's focus on the middle section spawners and look at their biology. Given Pink's rapid development, and the average temperatures in the Skagit, it would only take 50 to 60 days from spawning to emerging from the gravel. This is determined by T.U.'s earned daily. T.U.s (temperature units) are every degree of water temperature above 32, so an average of 48 degrees gives you 16 T.U.'s per day. Pinks emerge from the gravel and begin to feed and migrate downstream at roughly 900 T.U.s. (56 days). If the average spawn date is say September 20th, those fry would be migrating by November 15th. Those spawning lower in the river, and earlier, would be in the brackish water of the estuary, where Pinks spend the early part of their lives feeding in the nutrient rich waters. Those spawning later and higher up, will be impacted by the high water, but by and large, a large enough portion of the run will be just fine. Mother Nature always hedges her bet.

Class dismissed.

[hookr88]

Cool info. Thanks for the lesson . Readers Digest version I’m sure, but it sure provides a good picture of their early life cycle.

[metlhead]

Temperaure Units remind me of growing corn. Though, I thought pinks emerged Feb/Mar and went to salt, similar to chum.

[Bullkllr]

Temperaure Units remind me of growing corn. Though, I thought pinks emerged Feb/Mar and went to salt, similar to chum.

That's certainly what prevailing info dictates.

One thing everyone seems to agree on is that fish returns are somewhat cyclic. Environmental factors, like flooding, are one of the things that make them go up/down.