First tribal elk kill of the summer?

[jackelope]

how long will the animals last, whitefoot, when the hunting goes unregulated and it's a free for all.

how many elk did you kill last year, whitefoot?

no b.s. now...there's enough of that on here.

[andrew_12gauge]

i agree with you littlebuf it is a problem that some take advantage of those rights and unfortunately we can do nothing about it but why take the whole groups rights away just because a few guys screw it up, if they start there next all lawful hunters will have their right to hunt taken away because somebody went and poached numerous deer and elk rather than dividing ourselves as a group(hunters in general) we should work together to fix things

[Yak-NDN]

Clockum
  

 Why do you say that the tribal hunters are killing all the elk in the clockum? The state has a general season on spikes the bull to cow must be fine by the state, they are not were I would like to see them. I don't understand why do we as a tribe allow the state to overharvest all the spikes what do state hunters kill 90% that is bull *censored*. Allot of people on hear are hypocrites you don't like me to kill an elk and if I do you call it 30 but you don't have a problem killing one or two or three if you travel to other states hunt long seasons with an special permit or for the some people buy your bull or buck (governor's tag). If the clockum heard if in such bad shape why do 3000 people go there to slay out all the spikes every year. If you were truly for the animals you would volinter to stop hunting the clockum  and find a more challenging spot not were the elk have no place to hide from all the people.

[littlebuf]

at least they adhere to a season 

[teal101]

Clockum
  

 Why do you say that the tribal hunters are killing all the elk in the clockum? The state has a general season on spikes the bull to cow must be fine by the state, they are not were I would like to see them. I don't understand why do we as a tribe allow the state to overharvest all the spikes what do state hunters kill 90% that is bull *censored*. Allot of people on hear are hypocrites you don't like me to kill an elk and if I do you call it 30 but you don't have a problem killing one or two or three if you travel to other states hunt long seasons with an special permit or for the some people buy your bull or buck (governor's tag). If the clockum heard if in such bad shape why do 3000 people go there to slay out all the spikes every year. If you were truly for the animals you would volinter to stop hunting the clockum  and find a more challenging spot not were the elk have no place to hide from all the people.

He is with shutting down the clockum and let the population grow.  Its the WDFW that is screwing that area up with their head up their ass big game management views.

[teal101]

Whitefoot a serious question, or series of questions,

So if a tribal member is going to harvest an animal, say a bull elk, for a ceremony wouldn't he/she harvest it in a ceremonial way?  Say as the ancestors did?  If your ceremonies are still rooted in the ways of your elders, shouldn't the harvesting of the animal be done in such a way too?

Do you personally think the use of high powered rifles and automobiles to aid in harvest is acceptable?  If so why?  The treaty was written for back in the day when these things weren't thought of.  Aren't the tribes kind of "pushing the limit" so to say when they use todays technologies.

I personally think the tribes would not see as much bashing from all logical hunters if they harvested respectfully like their ancestors did.  I have no problem with a tribesman taking a bull elk under his treaty right if hes using a traditional longbow and horse and not aiding himself with todays technologies.

To me the harvesting of an animal out of season by a tribesman with a truck and rifle is disgusting.  I think it reflects poorly on the tribes.

Also do you think its right for a tribesman to harvest multiple bull elk in one year, then enter them in hunting shows and sell the antlers?  Is one family going to use 2, 3, even 4 elk a year?  Isn't it the way of the elders to use all of the elk possible and not waste?  I see it hard to not waste when harvesting upwards of 3 of these animals in a year.

Just trying to get a perspective on YOUR stance on these issues to provide some opposition and possibly middle ground on this subject.

Thanks.

Please answer these directly so we don't have to sift through your posts for responses.  Explain your reasoning.  Give use a compelling argument as to why it shouldn't change or why you believe things are fine the way they are.

[littlebuf]

i agree with you littlebuf

wouldn't this make you, how was it put oh ya. closed minded?

[KillBilly]

The fact is, that it is what it is whether you like it or not. All the ranting and bashing will not change a thing. Until we unite and are able to convince our government that it is necessary to change any treaty language it is useless to whine.

Kind of whats happening Killbilly.  You have to open a dialogue and talk about things before you can unite. A lot of positive ground has been made since last year.  The only whine I see has been you claiming its the same as last year.  No disrespect intended. 

Ok Bone...where is the federal government being included into this combined and agreed upon presentation. It's not combined and agreed upon and wasn't the last time it came up. You aren't anywhere near ready to go to washington with a proposal. Unless the proposal is to continue to pay it lip service... no offense

[Whitefoot]

Geez teal that's more like a book... let me see if i can get all this down..

Most of the harvest are for ceremony such as name givings, funerals est.  It doesn't have to be a bull elk a cow spike if it's cow season.. Most of the time it is on short notice so get what you can to help.  Trying to answer it the best way I can..  Actually I beter think about the first question a little more I can't explain what the brain is thinking..

The use of trucks and rifles to get elk!  I don't see why not.. I understand what your saying we have modernized.. Would it make everybody happy to hunt on horses...  And use bows?     R u saying it's unfair to use rifles and trucks?  I'm curious why it's unfair?  From your point of view and why does it make you sick?   

The other thing is we harvest our elk according to our season.. It's not out of season..   I understand how you feel that you can't hunt earlier in the year and later.

Ok! r u saying it would be fair if i used a bow and rode a horse? 

Ok! I apoligized for the sportsman show and after listening I didn't think it was a cool idea.. like i said I won't enter the sportsman show.
I don't waste my meat at all.. All the animals i kill get used..  I've had several people wach me gut, bone, vaccum pack all my meat..  It does not go to waste...

I'm curious to ask what you would ask of me..   

[andrew_12gauge]

i agree with you littlebuf

wouldn't this make you, how was it put oh ya. closed minded?

dont just quote a portion of what i said
"i agree with you littlebuf it is a problem that some take advantage of those rights and unfortunately we can do nothing about it but why take the whole groups rights away just because a few guys screw it up"
The key words there being "some take advantage of those rights" not lumping all tribal hunters into one group

[littlebuf]

i just wanted to make sure you were still up on your pedestal andrew, good for you

[boneaddict]

I guess in your way of thinking Killbilly is that we shouldn't talk about it anymore.  Just come up with a presentation on our own and convince the High and mighty goverment what should be done.    Feel free to do that if you have all the time on your hands.  I generally think its nice to understand both sides of the coin, figure out how it applies to todays standards, get all of the hot headed anger out of it, then come up with a plan.  I also think the plan would be better enacted upon if both sides agree on it.  I think the days of ramming a plan down someones throat is kind of what got us in this predictament in the first place. 

[teal101]

Geez teal that's more like a book... let me see if i can get all this down..

Most of the harvest are for ceremony such as name givings, funerals est.  It doesn't have to be a bull elk a cow spike if it's cow season.. Most of the time it is on short notice so get what you can to help.  Trying to answer it the best way I can..  Actually I beter think about the first question a little more I can't explain what the brain is thinking..

The use of trucks and rifles to get elk!  I don't see why not.. I understand what your saying we have modernized.. Would it make everybody happy to hunt on horses...  And use bows?     R u saying it's unfair to use rifles and trucks?  I'm curious why it's unfair?  From your point of view and why does it make you sick?   

The other thing is we harvest our elk according to our season.. It's not out of season..   I understand how you feel that you can't hunt earlier in the year and later.

Ok! r u saying it would be fair if i used a bow and rode a horse? 

Ok! I apoligized for the sportsman show and after listening I didn't think it was a cool idea.. like i said I won't enter the sportsman show.
I don't waste my meat at all.. All the animals i kill get used..  I've had several people wach me gut, bone, vaccum pack all my meat..  It does not go to waste...

I'm curious to ask what you would ask of me..   

Yes sorry for the length, just had a few questions burning in my mind.

Regarding the modernized usage of tools.  Since the treaty is from older days, before the modernized weapons and such, shouldn't you adhere to the ways of that time?  Unless the treaty is revised to accommodate such things such as trucks and high powered rifles adhering to the ways of the time the treaty was written only seem fair to me.

It makes me sick because it just looks slobbish.  To see an Indian go driving down a road, hop out of his truck and shoot the first animal he sees (giving the benefit of the doubt that that's how it goes and not that tribesman target bulls which i have a slight hunch that they do over cows.) is just kinda disgusting to me.  It really doesn't show any class.

And again back to your defined season.  Yes it differs from our season.  Does the tribe take into account when the animals breed and refrain from shooting mothers during this time?  And again this goes back to the treaty.  It was written back in another time.  Back when horses and long bows were used I could see hunting year round.  Your kill success goes down by not using modern means.  This would equal out the year round hunting and harvest ratio.  Do you agree?

Yes I believe if you, along with all your tribesman, were to hunt using the ways the treaty was written for, more people would be accepting of your hunting practices and season, I being one of them.

What would I ask of you?  I would ask you, if you are in agreement with my thoughts and the thoughts of those on my side of the argument, to join us and get your tribesman involved.  Its already known we need to be a thorn in the states ass to get any attention.  If we had the backing of one or more tribes in either re writing the treaty, or adjusting how the tribes hunt under the current treaty, I think the state might take a closer look.  Getting to the federal level is another hurdle but with the help of the tribes they might see it as a mutual point of concern.  That's one of our major problems is its us vs. the tribes.  If we mutually agree on something we have a high chance of being listened to seriously.

I look forward to your response.

[mossback91]

Clockum
  

 Why do you say that the tribal hunters are killing all the elk in the clockum? The state has a general season on spikes the bull to cow must be fine by the state, they are not were I would like to see them. I don't understand why do we as a tribe allow the state to overharvest all the spikes what do state hunters kill 90% that is bull *censored*. Allot of people on hear are hypocrites you don't like me to kill an elk and if I do you call it 30 but you don't have a problem killing one or two or three if you travel to other states hunt long seasons with an special permit or for the some people buy your bull or buck (governor's tag). If the clockum heard if in such bad shape why do 3000 people go there to slay out all the spikes every year. If you were truly for the animals you would volinter to stop hunting the clockum  and find a more challenging spot not were the elk have no place to hide from all the people.

They kill multiple animals but each out of a totaly different states man!!  this is much different than one guy killing multiple elk out of one area such as the colockum...................

[teal101]

I guess in your way of thinking Killbilly is that we shouldn't talk about it anymore.  Just come up with a presentation on our own and convince the High and mighty goverment what should be done.    Feel free to do that if you have all the time on your hands.  I generally think its nice to understand both sides of the coin, figure out how it applies to todays standards, get all of the hot headed anger out of it, then come up with a plan.  I also think the plan would be better enacted upon if both sides agree on it.  I think the days of ramming a plan down someones throat is kind of what got us in this predictament in the first place. 

Yes, I'm trying to hit on that very point!