First tribal elk kill of the summer?

[rezboy]

You didn't ask me how many I whacked last year it is a grand total of four didn't even kill a bull last year or a branch bull anyway. Now you say it is OK to kill up to three elk in one year for a non member if it is in another state. My kills could be spread over 12 Million acres. The Tribes gave up all that land so settlers could move in and they were told they could retain all of there hunting and fishing in usual and accustom places it is not a privilege that was traded it was all ours to begin with and if settlers didn't like it they could move on just like you can. Tribal kills compared to non Tribal kills Tribal kill might be at the low end of less than 5% on Yakama ceded land compared to non Tribal not a true fact number just a guess.. What is the number for our ceded area that the state kills 3000 animals?

Well put Yak.  Don't think it's going to make a difference though.  There will still be more complaints and "threats."  

 

[whacker1]

rezboy - I hadn't seen any posts from you in awhile.  Welcome back.

Yak - 4 elk - sounds like a spike and three cows?  did i get that right?  any deer?
By the way thank you for sharing.

Yes, some of the members here might kill 3 elk over three states or more, but they had to pay dearly to do so.  Washington - assuming resident. $       Idaho - now over $840 for non-resident deer & elk tag.  Montana - $660 or so for deer / elk combo

assuming those three states - you are looking at $1600 plus for a total of 1 week in washington, 2 weeks in Idaho, 1 month in Montana for elk.  If you choose to hunt deer - the season gets a little longer.  But all are a great distance from home and involve a great deal of time off and travel time to do so.  12 million acres is quite small in comparison to the billions of acres involved in hunting those three states. 
I would like to know how many the entire tribe took, so we can compare with the state data as to how many cows and bulls were taken by the rest of the population. I am not even going to guess how many or what percentage until I can look at data, because I don't have any idea what the tribe or multiple of tribes can take. 
Can other tribes hunt in your ceded area?  Is there overlap?  I don't know. 

Killbilly - you might be right that this will go nowhere, but I think just through this dialogue that I have learned more in one conversation than I ever would.  All politics involves awareness, compromise and some level of agreement.  and it all starts with awareness, which is usually the time frame that takes the longest to accomplish anything.  What happens if we do the math and find out that between a few tribes that the harvest is far greater than what each tribe realized.  Maybe each tribe will begin to re-evaluate their methodology.  Who knows, but it is always worth discussion.  Besides we are either going to beat this subject to death or some subject along the lines of 25-06 vs 257 weatherby or .300 ultra mag vs. 30-378 weatherby etc.  We are going to debate something - all debates are valid until they result in hurt feelings.  Hopefully we haven't gotten to that yet. Hopefully we can keep these conversation civil.

[rezboy]

rezboy - I hadn't seen any posts from you in awhile.  Welcome back.

Yak - 4 elk - sounds like a spike and three cows?  did i get that right?  any deer?
By the way thank you for sharing.

Yes, some of the members here might kill 3 elk over three states or more, but they had to pay dearly to do so.  Washington - assuming resident. $       Idaho - now over $840 for non-resident deer & elk tag.  Montana - $660 or so for deer / elk combo

assuming those three states - you are looking at $1600 plus for a total of 1 week in washington, 2 weeks in Idaho, 1 month in Montana for elk.  If you choose to hunt deer - the season gets a little longer.  But all are a great distance from home and involve a great deal of time off and travel time to do so.  12 million acres is quite small in comparison to the billions of acres involved in hunting those three states. 
I would like to know how many the entire tribe took, so we can compare with the state data as to how many cows and bulls were taken by the rest of the population. I am not even going to guess how many or what percentage until I can look at data, because I don't have any idea what the tribe or multiple of tribes can take. 
Can other tribes hunt in your ceded area?  Is there overlap?  I don't know. 

Killbilly - you might be right that this will go nowhere, but I think just through this dialogue that I have learned more in one conversation than I ever would.  All politics involves awareness, compromise and some level of agreement.  and it all starts with awareness, which is usually the time frame that takes the longest to accomplish anything.  What happens if we do the math and find out that between a few tribes that the harvest is far greater than what each tribe realized.  Maybe each tribe will begin to re-evaluate their methodology.  Who knows, but it is always worth discussion.  Besides we are either going to beat this subject to death or some subject along the lines of 25-06 vs 257 weatherby or .300 ultra mag vs. 30-378 weatherby etc.  We are going to debate something - all debates are valid until they result in hurt feelings.  Hopefully we haven't gotten to that yet. Hopefully we can keep these conversation civil.

Thanks Whacker.  Been busy man.  Haven't had a lot of time to devote to the debates!   

[Yak-NDN]

More like two calf elk and two deer only shot one because he had a broken leg from the gen season. The rest were on the rez.
And there is a few spots in the ceded area that overlap but most of the 12million acres are all Yakama.

[MountainWalk]

I just hope that no Hoh's scope me this year. Last year had three of them aim at me with rifles thru their scopes, even after I waved at them and showed them the blaze panel on my pack. This was during early archery season. Twas I a poacher and show no regard for law or life, prolly would have.......

[KillBilly]

[quote author=whacker1 link=topic=29991.msg356076#msg356076 date=1247692466

Killbilly - you might be right that this will go nowhere, but I think just through this dialogue that I have learned more in one conversation than I ever would.  All politics involves awareness, compromise and some level of agreement.  and it all starts with awareness, which is usually the time frame that takes the longest to accomplish anything.  What happens if we do the math and find out that between a few tribes that the harvest is far greater than what each tribe realized.  Maybe each tribe will begin to re-evaluate their methodology.  Who knows, but it is always worth discussion.  Besides we are either going to beat this subject to death or some subject along the lines of 25-06 vs 257 weatherby or .300 ultra mag vs. 30-378 weatherby etc.  We are going to debate something - all debates are valid until they result in hurt feelings.  Hopefully we haven't gotten to that yet. Hopefully we can keep these conversation civil.
[/quote]

Whacker1, you are totally correct about there being a lot good info here. My point is that it is the same good info and ideas by the same folks as last years discussion. I never claimed that we can't learn from each other. However, I have to question what we learned when the same questions and the same responses surface again and again. I know that many tribes have Game and management plans with websites to communicate them. I question how many of us white-eyes go there and look.

The gist of my concern is that we need to do this at a much higher level and include folks that can and will affect some change. No argument that some info may go back to the tribes and vice verse and may cause some thought processes but it will never get to the level we all want it too by repeating this again and again...

I have great respect for some of our Native American brothers on this site and other places not site related.

[boneaddict]

actaully Killbilly, lost in the middle after that one was me saying I stand corrected as you were right.  Sorry you missed that.  That was the point of my e-mail to you as well so that you didn't miss it.

Whatever Bone

[littlebuf]

all debates are valid until they result in hurt feelings.  Hopefully we haven't gotten to that yet. Hopefully we can keep these conversation civil.


my feelings are hurt, but im "closed minded" not morally superior like guys named andrew   

[furbearer365]

The issue is the fact that Indians get the right to kill elk that are not owned by the tribe or anyone else.  They are free roaming and not property of any tribe or other group of people.   I don't care if everyone on the Rez is an outstanding individual and the nicest most careing person who is a wonderful steward of the land.  It all boils down to people killing elk in excess for what.  This is 2009, if it is food they are after, become cattle farmers, if it is just for tradition, who iN the hell could see killing a bull elk just because your great great great grandfather did 200 years ago.  BUY A TAG AND GET OFF YOUR ASS, STOP KILLING THE ELK.  IF HAVING THIS OPINION MAKES ME IGNORANT, THEN SO BE IT, I AM A TRUE HUNTER AND ALWAYS WILL BE AND WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO TO SEE THAT MY DAUGHTER AND GRANDKIDS WILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT I CHERISH SO DEEPLY.  I AM FOR THE ANIMALS AND ALWAY WILL BE. 

[rasbo]

all debates are valid until they result in hurt feelings.  Hopefully we haven't gotten to that yet. Hopefully we can keep these conversation civil.


my feelings are hurt, but im "closed minded" not morally superior like guys named andrew   

we will make you feel wanted saturday 

[littlebuf]

i have to confess rasbo......i dont really have feelings so the whole thing was a lie

[rasbo]

i have to confess rasbo......i dont really have feelings so the whole thing was a lie

[KillBilly]

actaully Killbilly, lost in the middle after that one was me saying I stand corrected as you were right.  Sorry you missed that.  That was the point of my e-mail to you as well so that you didn't miss it.

Whatever Bone

OOOPs searching for the e-mail, my apologies if I missed something... I'll blame it on OldTimers disease.....

[Jake T]

i just read all 13 pages.  couple things came up in my mind

where can i see a copy of this treaty?

somebody said that future generations would hopefully think they needed to change the public image.  maybe, but more likely the current trend will continue because tribe mentality is to let each be his own and take care of his problems.  so they don't care what the public thinks.

killbilly makes good points that this is probably the same discussion taht comes up year after year.  everyone gets all riled up and mad and then bear season starts and people get distracted and forget about it.

is there anyone on teh site that has been considering a run in politics?  if you let it slip taht you were a sportsman you would have a lot of support and then we might have a person in higher status that could do something.

the treaty was written a long time ago when harvesting animals wasn't as easy as it is today.  i don't mean easy, but a rifle and scope is easier than a trad bow and fingers.  as times evolve the rules need to evolve, that's why we have amendments.  people touched on this earlier but i wanted to reiterate.

way back in teh pages someone asked about why punnish the group on the actions of the one bad apple.  welcome to life.  it's easier to outlaw something completely than it is to try and be in the right place at the right time to catch someone breaking the law.  it's unfortuante but its true.  we all remember elementry school when the bad kid took all of the chalk from the chalk board so nobody got to use chalk for the rest of the week.

please please please i beg of you tribe members.  push for a cooperative managment effort.  there will be more animals for everyone to hunt in the long run. 

sorry for the long post, but i put in a lot of effort to read this whole post so i thought i should contribute.

[littlebuf]

rasbo there onto us about the chalk