What is it......

[gasman]

When ever i look for lab pups, the seller (most) always list the hips as garenteed for  up to 2 years. When i talked with my vet, he told me most labs don't show sign of hip problems untill after 2 years of age, very few labs show befoe 2 years old.

The breeder i got my last pup from gave me the same guarantee, but they don't test for hip problems untill they are 2 years old 

What good is it to give a gaurentee if it don't mean any thing, is it to make the buyer feel better abut the purchase?

[IronMike]

What good is it to give a gaurentee if it don't mean any thing, is it to make the buyer feel better abut the purchase?
[/quote]

Pretty much just to give you a warm fuzzy feeling about spending that much money on a dog. Not that Labs aren't worth it, best dog in the world IMO.  My Choc. Lab didn't develop hip problems until this year and she turned 8y.o. in Jan.

[luvtohnt]

From my minimal experience they will refund the purchase price if the dog has bad hips after two years.

Brandon
P.S. I have a pregnant yellow!

[gasman]

Don't get me wrong, i love labs. I lost a chocolate lab May first, he was my best friend.
Bought my daughter a yellow lab a month ago or so, and plan on getting another chocolate sooner or later, but what good does it to give a gaurentee if it don't mean *censored*........

All the breeders i have have talked to or delt with or seen advertisement for, will only give the gaurentee for "up to 2 years". After 2 years, it's your problem.

[jackelope]

i think maybe because it's just like anything else...if you beat the crap out of something, like say a car,  a warranty will not address issues of abuse.
i think you're going to have a hard time with someone warranteeing a dogs hips when the dog is 6-7 years old and who knows what that dog has been put through? how many times has he jumped off the tailgate of a truck 4' off the ground, how many times has he jumped in and out of a boat onto the pavement, etc...all hypothetical scenarios, but anyway...
i think  above all you want certified hips...not just a  guarantee from joe shmo the dog breeder.

[gasman]

Hey Brandon, if you have any Chocolate males, let me know.

I am not trying to pick on any one or any breeder, just trying to get educated.  

[gasman]

i think maybe because it's just like anything else...if you beat the crap out of something, like say a car,  a warranty will not address issues of abuse.
i think you're going to have a hard time with someone warranteeing a dogs hips when the dog is 6-7 years old and who knows what that dog has been put through? how many times has he jumped off the tailgate of a truck 4' off the ground, how many times has he jumped in and out of a boat onto the pavement, etc...all hypothetical scenarios, but anyway...
i think  above all you want certified hips...not just a  guarantee from joe shmo the dog breeder.

Correct, but if the parents have not been checked for one reason or another 

[jackelope]

i think maybe because it's just like anything else...if you beat the crap out of something, like say a car,  a warranty will not address issues of abuse.
i think you're going to have a hard time with someone warranteeing a dogs hips when the dog is 6-7 years old and who knows what that dog has been put through? how many times has he jumped off the tailgate of a truck 4' off the ground, how many times has he jumped in and out of a boat onto the pavement, etc...all hypothetical scenarios, but anyway...
i think  above all you want certified hips...not just a  guarantee from joe shmo the dog breeder.

Correct, but if the parents have not been checked for one reason or another 

then i would keep looking...certified is where it's at.

[Kent Hunter]

The bottom line is really that they either do or they don't have bad hips. The best thing that you can do is look at their breeding line. And research. Good luck. It don't matter what breed it is. It is all about the relationship that you develope with your dog. Me personally, I LOVE DOGS!! Some that I have owned have been better that others. But I've loved them all.

[arintime]

I am in the market for a dog and that is one of the issues I have thought about! I decided to go the "professional" breeder route and spend some extra money. They check the breedng parents and the grandparent's info is available too. I think it is a cheap investment in my new best friend. I love labs as friends have them, BUT, there are too many backyard breeders that push pups out and don't check for faults. (BTW, you can still get great dogs by looking at the parents!) Long story short, I want to have the best chance of a trouble free friend as possible!

[rezboy]

Sadly enough, the best labs that I have owned were not "certified" or papered up the ass.  Anyone can say that they are certified, but is it just for a couple of years?  I have owned a few labs over the years; papered and unpapered.  Never have I come across a lab that has bad hips.  It's a gamble through my eyes.  Any dog can have bad hips, no matter what their breeding and family history is like.  Look at humans.  You have 2 perfect parents, does that mean their children are going to be perfect too.... or......  can there be a chance that something is wrong with one of their offspring???   

[jackelope]

a lab having ofa certified hips and eyes is not about purebred or not purebred...it's a process.

OFA hip and elbow certifications are absolutely necessary for any Labrador being bred. Labradors with hip or elbow displasia should never be bred. The x-rays for an OFA hip certification are performed at age two or older. A Preliminary OFA, which can be done at age one, is a good advance indication of a Labrador’s hips; but does not guarantee the OFA certification performed at age two will pass. A Labrador grows between ages one and two and the joints can change. Insist on seeing, for yourself, the hip and elbow OFA certification of the dam (mother) and sire (father). All reputable breeders will freely give you a copy of each. OFA rates passing hips as Excellent, Good, and Fair and elbows as normal. These ratings are spelled out on each certificate and an OFA number is assigned.

We have been told by people who call looking for a puppy that some breeders they have contacted informed them that it is not necessary to have the dam’s hips OFA certified, only the sire’s hips or it is not necessary to have the elbows certified. Others reported that the breeder told them the hips were x-rayed, the veterinarian performing the x-ray said the x-rays were "fine", so the breeder did not bother to send the x-rays to OFA for certification. Some have told us they were given just a number that was the supposed OFA certificate number. Always ask to see the certificates, never take someone’s word on it. If a reputable breeder has gone through the expense and effort to have x-rays taken, why would they not forward the x-rays to OFA for certification? Why would they not want to show you the passing certificates?  To learn more about OFA, please link to their website http://www.offa.org

[Happy Gilmore]

When you get a "guarantee" on hips, eyes, etc... If the dog has bad hips or elbows, often, the breeder will require you give the dog back or put them down if you want your money back. This is the catch 22 that comes from most goofy breeders. The better ones will give you 1/2 or all your money and ask you spay your buddy. If, you are worried about it and the breeder won't put it in writing, find a better breeder who is reputable. Plenty of people right here on this board to give you good suggestions.

Certifications of the parents are what you are paying for when you buy a purebred. It is a little extra reassurance that the breeders are at least attempting to make sure the dogs being bred are producing sound, healthy pups.

Call me a snob or whatever, I think its worth every penny. Starting a dog right is 90% of how the dog turns out IMHO.

[Happy Gilmore]

Rocky, you showing up this weekend at Peppers?

[Wayne1]

Most breeders I know give a guarantee from 26 to 28 months

[gasman]

Rocky, you showing up this weekend at Peppers?

We just found out about it to night from Bryant and Cindy. We stopped by and saw them and showed them the new pup, they just told us about it. Cindy said they had my name down as a helper and Bryant told them he has nt talked to me in a while and did not know about it, so they removed my name as a helper.

I asked Bryant if they need any help, but he told me tghey have it covered.



I don not know if we will be there or not. he did inform me of one at the end of the month. We may be at that one.

[Happy Gilmore]

I'll be up at Curlew fishing that weekend. If you're bored this weekend and make it out come and find me. I'll be shooting ducks for Senior group Sat and Junior group Sunday.

Lets see, I'll probably have shot about 100 ducks by the time the weekend is over

[mjgentile]

ask if you can buy an extended warranty

[Ireland Farms]

I am a breeder. I guarantee hips for 26 months. I also get the OFA clearances done on the parents to assure that I'm breeding for good genetic health. The reason most breeders guarantee is 2 years is because OFA, (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals), only recognizes dogs that are two years of age. They consider a dog of that age fully mature in their bone growth/structure. I guarantee 26 month to allow 2 months to get the OFA results done and returned..... So basically any breeder is only going to guarantee hips if the buyer gets the OFA done and the dog shows some form of dysplasia. I'd ask any breeder if the guarantee can be longer than two years though. Especially since you can't even do the OFA until the pup turns two.

I currently have a litter of blacks, and a litter of yellows due in two weeks. 

If in doubt about a breeder being honest, check out the pups parents and see if they've passed their OFA. www.offa.org

[Happy Gilmore]

I am a breeder. I guarantee hips for 26 months. I also get the OFA clearances done on the parents to assure that I'm breeding for good genetic health. The reason most breeders guarantee is 2 years is because OFA, (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals), only recognizes dogs that are two years of age. They consider a dog of that age fully mature in their bone growth/structure. I guarantee 26 month to allow 2 months to get the OFA results done and returned..... So basically any breeder is only going to guarantee hips if the buyer gets the OFA done and the dog shows some form of dysplasia. I'd ask any breeder if the guarantee can be longer than two years though. Especially since you can't even do the OFA until the pup turns two.

I currently have a litter of blacks, and a litter of yellows due in two weeks. 

If in doubt about a breeder being honest, check out the pups parents and see if they've passed their OFA. www.offa.org

The biggest question to ask is, you have a guarantee, in writing. What if the dog does not pass. What is the guarantee for? Replacement? Money? Do you have to give the dog back? Do you have to spay the dog? Were you planning on breeding? Very few breeders outline the "guarantee" in writing. Most want to be able to control the situation once you have a bad dog....

[gasman]

All i am trying to poit ut is, The garentee is only good for 2 years, if you can not test the dogs for 2 years, why give a worthless garentee.

Yes repitable repitable breeders will work some thing out with you, but you may find others that say after 24 months of age its your problem. (dont blast me now, i am only coming up with a senareo) so in this case if you spend big momey on a dog, and the hips start to show or have tested for problems you are SOL.........


Thats my whole point, nothing else, and NO i have not had any problems at all. Just wanted to see what others think about a situation like this.


Pete

[Ireland Farms]

Happy Gilmore, Below is my hip guarantee. I'm not allowed to post my website w/o being a sponsor, so I copy and pasted it.

The concern that breeders have is the certainty that it really is their pup with the problem.... Here is a scenario. A guy buys a puppy from me and six months later he and his wife decide they want a second pup for company. They buy the same sex and color of pup and all is well until this second pups starts having issues with his hips. He calls the breeder and the breeder says, "Sorry, it's not my problem". So they decide to call me and tell me that their pup they bought from me is having hip problems.  My guarantee requires that the buyer gets the pup micro chipped before the pup turns 16 weeks by a licensed vet. The vet must send me a signed statement of the microchip and the microchip #. This allows me to verify that this dog really is one of my pups. I have no problem honoring my guarantee. Fortunately I have never had to, but I will if an issue arises and the buyer simply abides by the guarantee.
No, I don't expect the dog back.  I do require it to be spayed, as it's never a good idea to breed a dog that has hip problems. I will replace with a puppy, or money back at my discretion. A good breeder will be very flexible and understanding, but we also have to be aware that there are dishonest people out there and protect ourselves as well. If you buy a pup whose parents have passed their OFA, your dog is very unlikely to have any hip problems.



HIP GUARANTEE FOR IRELAND FARMS LABRADORS


Although performance, health and soundness of the sire and dam of a litter does not guarantee the offspring, there is a great chance of improving/keeping positive results through a very selective breeding program. We research bloodlines, and health of Labradors in our pedigrees before purchasing. We do everything possible here at Ireland Farms to produce a good, sound Labrador, free of genetic diseases.

With great confidence in the puppies we produce, We give a 26 month guarantee on the hips of the puppies bred by us here at Ireland Farms.

Our guarantee is for a  puppy replacement, or at our decision, your money back, if the OFA finds the puppy having moderate to severe hip dysplasia. The following terms and conditions must be met to make this guarantee valid!

1) The puppy MUST be micro chipped before 16 weeks of age by a licensed veterinarian, A signed statement from the vet MUST be sent to us, with the microchip number included on the statement, within 2 weeks of the implant of chip. (see note at the bottom of page for the importance of the microchip).

2) The puppy MUST be fed a quality “puppy” food until it reaches one year of age. Good quality puppy food has the necessary nutrients needed for a growing puppy. Also, after 12 months of age, purchaser must continue a good quality food. Also purchaser must have wellness exams done by their veterinarian every 6 months and provide those documents to us.

3) The puppy MUST not be allowed to become obese.

4) The puppy MUST be given exercise, yet, not excessively.

5) The puppy has not suffered abuse,trauma, injury or neglect,that would affect development, this voids all guarantees.

6) The puppy must have a preliminary exam on the hips, before 15 months of age, sent to the ofa, and the results sent to us before 18 months of age.

7) The purchaser shall immediately notify the breeder of the condition and diagnosis of the hips.

The puppy's microchip number MUST be included on the paperwork by the examining veterinarian, which must scan the chip.  Also the chip number MUST be included on OFA results.

9) The breeder, at our expense may require a second exam of the dog by a licensed veterinarian of OUR choice.

10) In the event both veterinarians arrive to the same diagnosis, the puppy/dog will be replaced at the next available litter with same sex/same color. Puppies will not be shipped. Pick up only.

11) In the event of a differing diagnosis, Buyer may request a third exam by a licensed veterinarian agreeable to the breeder. ALL expenses, associated with a third diagnosis, if necessary, be at the responsibility and expense of the purchaser. The diagnosis of a third exam will be binding.

12) Expenses for initial diagnosis, shipping of records, x-rays, and other info is the responsibility of the purchaser.

13) The dog must be registered to the original purchaser at the time of diagnosis.

14) The dog must not have sired/whelped a litter prior to the testing of hips, and/or before 2 years of age.

15) We do not require the dog be returned to us, but purchaser MUST provide proof to us, that the dog has been spayed./neutered within 45 days of diagnosis, whether purchaser is keeping or placing the dog.

16) Purchaser will return all AKC registration/ paperwork to Ireland Farms.

17) The Breeders monetary liability is expressly limited to the original purchase price under ALL circumstances, the purchaser agrees to liquidate all damages in/over the amount of the purchase price.

18) Must keep the name "Ireland Farms" in the registered name of dog.

IMPORTANCE OF THE MICROCHIP- We will only replace a puppy/dog that has been bred by us here at Ireland Farms. Not everyone is as honest as others, so we require the chip to be inserted.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We guarantee your dogs eyes for the first year. An  eye check must be done by a licensed animal eye doctor. This must then be turned into the Canine Eye Registration Foundation. Once the final results are returned and if your dog does not pass due to a non-injury issue, you will be given a puppy replacement, or a refund, at our discretion. The following criteria must be done for this guarantee to be valid:
 
See above #1-6, and #12-18. If these are not followed, the eye guarantee is void.
 

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[Old Dog]

I don't mean to critisize, but the two breeders that I have dealt with micro-chip the pups before I got them.  That way there is no question where the pup came from.

gasman, I got a 10 month performance guarantee (guaranteed to point, or free training), and a 30 month heath guarantee with Kalle.  I didn't need the performance guarantee, and because both of her parents are OFA good I probably won't need the health guarantee. 

[Ireland Farms]

I don't mean to critisize, but the two breeders that I have dealt with micro-chip the pups before I got them.  That way there is no question where the pup came from.

gasman, I got a 10 month performance guarantee (guaranteed to point, or free training), and a 30 month heath guarantee with Kalle.  I didn't need the performance guarantee, and because both of her parents are OFA good I probably won't need the health guarantee. 

I've had several buyers not want their dog microchipped. I prefer to leave it up to the individual. A microchip is pointless if the breeder you got your dog from only has a 24 month guarantee.... Like I said before, if both parents have passed their OFA, the pups should have no problem.

[Happy Gilmore]

the more details in writing the better. It leaves less to argue should there be a problem. I don't know why someone would not want their pup chipped?

I wouldn't hesitate on your health agreement....that is just a sound way to make sure your new pup starts healthy and stays healthy..