Sportsmen Shafted by Congress

[bearpaw]

Debate on “Regulatory Czar” Ended By U.S. Senate

Vote Held Despite Senator’s Attempt to Put Hold on Nomination

(Columbus) – Tonight the U.S. Senate voted to end debate on the nomination of one of the most outspoken animal rights, anti-hunting, and anti- Second Amendment individuals to a high government position.  By a 63-35 vote, cloture was invoked and debate stopped on the nomination of Cass Sunstein to serve as the head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA). 
Of the 63 senators that voted in favor of Sunstein, an anti-hunter, 22 were members of the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus, or 42 percent. 

The vote was held despite the efforts of Senator Johnny Isakson (R- GA) to place a “hold” on the nomination of Sunstein. 

The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance (USSA) and the National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) made this confirmation fight a top priority.  These efforts were also aided by many conservation groups from around the nation such as: National Shooting Sports Foundation, Masters of Foxhounds Association of North America, Fur Takers of America, National Trappers’ Association, Conservation Force, Shikar Safari Club, Mule Deer Foundation, Delta Water Fowl Foundation, Pope and Young Club, Dallas Safari Club, Whitetails Unlimited, Inc., Houston Safari Club, Texas Wildlife Association, and the Wild Sheep Foundation.

The efforts of those groups and many others were instrumental in persuading Sen. Isakson to attempt placing a “hold” on Sunstein.

 “We are disappointed with the outcome of tonight’s vote, especially that so many members of the Senate claiming to be pro-sportsman voted in favor of a nominee who has expressed that recreational hunting could be banned,” stated USSA President and CEO Bud Pidgeon.  “Nonetheless, the USSA and our partners had an obligation to fight this appointment. Sportsmen all across America will clearly be able to see which senators, along with Sen. Isakson, were willing to stand up for them.”

The USSA and others argued for weeks that Sunstein’s views on giving animals standing in court and banning recreational hunting would pose an intolerable threat to sportsmen given the critical position the OIRA has in the implementation of all federal rules.

Click Here for a full list of how senators voted.

The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance is a national association of sportsmen and sportsmen’s organizations that protects the rights of hunters, anglers and trappers in the courts, legislatures, at the ballot, in Congress and through public education programs.  For more information about the U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance and its work, call (614) 888-4868 or visit its website, www.ussportsmen.org.

[Machias]

Oh it's ok Dale that's at the Federal Level, us Sportsmen don't have to worry about politicians at the Federal Level.  It's all good.   

[bearpaw]

 

[sisu]

This link might get you to the vote directly  http://www.ussportsmen.org/Document.Doc?id=116
I see the WA demos voted yea...

Ya, I  hear ya Fred, the entire administration is slanted to the left so far it's going to take YEARS to get back to center after this. I hope there are still hunting seasons available for the peóns once the smoke screen has lifted.

[wolfbait]

Its not going to be much fun when the both pair of wolves over run us, can't imagine driving wolves off the porch with my slingshot.

[bearpaw]

Totally agree Fred....is this thread still permissible.....

Was nearly afraid it might hurt someones feelings...

Some folks just don't understand how national politics and hunting are related, maybe they will understand when it is banned....

[bearpaw]

On this subject I am pro-choice....

Everyone has the choice to avoid the Politics Threads.

I personally feel that the people concerned about the politics are the people who will be responsible for maintaining our hunting and guns ownership.

When Ray tells us he doesn't want politics on his forum, I will graciously respect that request, it is his forum.

[wolfbait]

I think it's just that some people would rather not read 50 threads with the same old *censored* in them...   Start one thread that has hunting related politics in them, and post everything in that one thread.  It just get's really old when there is thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread, (get sick of reading that over and over?)  Get the point?

Miles, MIles and more miles, What is it about learning from other peoples ideas and thoughts that bother you,,, Would rather just have a picture forum?? (gee whiz, look at that perty deer)

[mulehunter]

 

Mulehunter

[wolfbait]

I think it's just that some people would rather not read 50 threads with the same old *censored* in them...   Start one thread that has hunting related politics in them, and post everything in that one thread.  It just get's really old when there is thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread, (get sick of reading that over and over?)  Get the point?

Miles, MIles and more miles, What is it about learning from other peoples ideas and thoughts that bother you,,, Would rather just have a picture forum?? (gee whiz, look at that perty deer)

Hey are you getting sick of seeing my replies everywhere???  I guess it's working, cause now you see exactly how most feel about the political garbage that's in every other thread.

Actually Miles, I am interested in why you don't like to discuss whats going on and why?

[runamuk]

ummmm miles this is the HUNTING POLITICS and Activism board... so the actual place where this topic is appropriate  

and this situation stinks...since when does our country need czar's   I thought we overthrew British rule to get away from this  

[Bigshooter]

Yeah, well it doesn't say Politics board when you click on the links on the right hand side under "Recent".

I'm not saying it isn't appropriate, I'm just saying it get's old when there's a bunch of threads about the same old stuff and they all end up the same.  OBAMA/WOLVES/INDIANS.

 

[runamuk]

May have to open a season on politicans.

See, it's things like that.   That is just dumb, useless garbage.

53 years of living in this world and that's the best approach to this topic that you can come up with?

Seriously WTF is wrong with some of you?.

I actually understand it....it is called complete and utter frustration.  The economy sucks, we are losing our rights and no matter what we do it seems to not matter.  I know I am tired of barely making ends meet if at all, I've quit all kinds of things to try and have more money and it just gets worse.....

I just sort of came out of a depression that was nearing suicidal I totally get the frustration factor where you throw your hands in the air and say something like that..... most people can only take so much before they break or fight back...... I usually break then fight...

it isn't just here I hear this same stuff at the gym, in the line at the store, at the bank, at the gun shop, at work (feed stores mainly) most people are concerned with where this country is heading and many do not have a clue what to do anymore.....our government seems hell bent on just digging a deeper hole and ignoring the people.....

I do agree that all of us fighting amongst ourselves is of little use and threatening each other and others is of little use...but venting about whats going on is sort of needed or else people will start exploding....

[Bigshooter]

May have to open a season on politicans.

See, it's things like that.   That is just dumb, useless garbage.

53 years of living in this world and that's the best approach to this topic that you can come up with?

Seriously WTF is wrong with some of you?.

 

I think it's a great idea.

[wolfbait]

383838383838383838383838

See, it's things like that.   That is just dumb, useless garbage.

53 years of living in this world and that's the best approach to this topic that you can come up with?

Seriously WTF is wrong with some of you?.

I actually understand it....it is called complete and utter frustration.  The economy sucks ass, we are losing our rights and no matter what we do it seems to not matter.  I know I am tired of barely making ends meet if at all, I've quit all kinds of things to try and have more money and it just gets worse.....

I just sort of came out of a depression that was nearing suicidal I totally get the frustration factor where you throw your hands in the air and say something like that..... most people can only take so much before they break or fight back...... I usually break then fight...

it isn't just here I hear this same stuff at the gym, in the line at the store, at the bank, at the gun shop, at work (feed stores mainly) most people are concerned with where this country is heading and many do not have a clue what to do anymore.....our government seems hell bent on just digging a deeper hole and ignoring the people.....

I do agree that all of us fighting amongst ourselves is of little use and threatening each other and others is of little use...but venting about whats going on is sort of needed or else people will start exploding....

Well Said, runamuk,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Little Dave]

I'll point out that she said we are (in the process of) losing our rights.
You asked her to name rights already lost.

The matter is that we do need to be noisy with the politicians.  We're not going to give up rights, although we do have adaptable and perpetual resistance to erode or lose these rights.  Presently we have exceptional rights, we can hunt, we can defend ourselves, we have a degree of privacy, and we cannot be fined or imprisoned for uttering a word that is not agreeable with the head of state.

Many do more than their fair share to defend these rights.  I see these types of messages as an appeal to get more people to pitch in and help defend rights.  The principle being that more people make lighter work.  Therefore, it is appropriate to use media such as this to discuss.

[KillBilly]

Totally agree Fred....is this thread still permissible.....

Was nearly afraid it might hurt someones feelings...

Some folks just don't understand how national politics and hunting are related, maybe they will understand when it is banned....

Dale, this is clearly a fair topic and it will stand unless some folks can't control themselves. When name calling and threats begin then it is time to lock or delete. Locking and deleting isn't as prevalent as some think it does.

[300UltraMagShooter]

Miles asked the most important question in all of these "threads".

He asked, "what freedoms & liberty are we losing?"

That is it.  And if you guys can force him to see it, you will have gained more ground with him than all other posts combined.

I can give example after example after example, but i'd prefer you guys to do it so you can get the hang of it when this comes up again. 

Not everyone understands "taxes" or "security from islamofacists", but everyone understands they don't want to lose their freedoms.  Loss of freedom & liberty is the heart of every political issue there is, which is why i hate leftist ideas so much.

Please explain it to Miles in detail and with real world examples. 

Hint:  Maybe start with Healtcare or socialist style (government run) schools?

[Ray]

If you know anything about Sunstein he's a complete kook who advocates banning all hunting except for sustenance purposes. You would have to prove you need to hunt even in those scenarios if you want to meet his standards. The fact that he's such a radical will certainly raise eyebrows among the sporting community and you can be sure that your hunting priveleges will be under scrutiny. Possibly under attack.

If you like the feeling of having to justify every aspect of hunting to some government bureaucrat and feel that the expanding government and possibly this specific bureaucrat it is not an invasion or even out of touch with reality then great. I don't see any problem with this particular topic.

I think there are legitemate reasons for multiple hunting groups to target this person and try to get him out of the government. Cass Sunstein believes that the animals should be able to bring you to court and sue you. I have no idea how that could physically work but anyone who thinks like that doesn't have all their screws tightened. Apparently Cass Sunstein would have sweeping powers to regulate ANYTHING. Whatever that means

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/249

In a 2007 speech at Harvard University, Sunstein argued in favor of entirely "eliminating current practices such as … meat eating." He also proposed: "We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now."

Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions that "animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian-like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf."

The Center for Consumer Freedom’s Director of Research, David Martosko, is available to discuss Cass Sunstein’s likely impact on typical elements of American life that involve the use of animals. Sunstein’s work could spell the end of animal agriculture, retail sales of meat and dairy foods, hunting and fishing, biomedical research, pet ownership, zoos and aquariums, traveling circuses, and countless other things Americans take for granted.

Mr. Martosko said: "Cass Sunstein owes Americans an honest appraisal of his animal rights agenda as America’s top regulator. Americans don’t realize that the next four years could be full of bizarre initiatives plucked from the wildest dreams of the animal-rights fringe. Think about every outrageous idea PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have ever had, and imagine them all having the force of federal law. This doesn’t look good for hunters, ranchers, restaurateurs, biomedical researchers, or ordinary pet owners."

“[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf.”

“We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.”

.

[huntnphool]

"I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now."

 There goes sex, outlawed unless you apply for a procreating permit. That would be one high demand OIL tag right there.

[runamuk]

OK Miles sorry I had to go work the 4 hours I get to work today so could not jump back in and answer your questions....

In my lifetime rights I have lost...

I have no right to choose..... to wear a seatbelt, buy auto insurance, wear a helmet on a motorcycle, in many cities I may not leave my dogs intact, or breed them, sell my horses for slaughter, these are few that pop into my head immediately......you may not think these are rights or a loss but to me they are....because I knew a time where I had these choices and now I don't.

I am sick of being told how I can find ways to make money...I apply for jobs and get no where....I've sold everything I can sell extra vehicles, my horses, horse trailer, my plants are not selling which was once a source of income...they'd probably sell if they were illegal plants instead of just landscape plants....I have shovelled *censored* in horse barns, bartended, worked low paying crappy jobs part time around my kids schedules for 18 years I started working when I was 11 .....so when I say I am not finding work it really pisses me off to have someone say I am not trying hard enough 

Miles I go to the gun shop to talk to people the owner is a nice guy I stop in and say hi when I am in town I haven't bought a damn thing from him in the last 2 months due to no spending money

I don't know why I am even bothering to try and answer your questions.......it doesn't matter what I say....hell none of it matters......all I do is let this crap get me upset.....

[Rgrady35]

Gee Miles, aint been laid in a while, huh? Dude you might want to try some anger management classes. Let people say what they want, it's not hurting you is it? Life is short, sorry if you have had issues lately. Two rights ya say that have been lost. I wish I could use steel traps like I used to when I was younger. I wish we could still bait bears. I wish I could find some way to turn off my stoopid seat belt alarm in my truck without having to be a contortionist. I pray that my health care is not in the hands of the government. I really don't trust the government, as many of our fore fathers didn't. The less the government is involved with the better. There, I hope I didn't upset you too much, man.

[bearpaw]

Miles....it might get rid of much of the bickering you are complaining about if you avoid my posts. When I look back through this post the bickering you are talking about seems to be mostly your own. If you avoid my posts then we won't have the bickering that you so adamently say you hate....

For some of you others who don't have the fortitude or ability to talk politics in a courteous manner, please avoid my posts and we won't have the bickering you say you don't like.

For the record and out of courtesy, I will limit my political posts to guns or hunting related political posts, unless someone else starts a thread, then I will consider it open season.

IMO - If you can't take the heat and respond in a civil manner, you shouldn't even read or respond to political threads.    That will take care of much of the bickering some of you complain about. 

[bearpaw]

Back to the thread.....

Unfortunately we are now stuck with Sunstein....hopefully I am wrong in worrying that he will try to further his anti-gun and anti-hunting agenda....but somehow I doubt that will be the case.

May the force be with us....

[bearpaw]

I think there is an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other, sometimes it is hard to listen to the right one, but we all need to try my firend.

[bearpaw]

miles, miles, miles....it is so easy to see what you are doing....you are just trying to agravate me so you can complain about the political threads upsetting your feelings.

sorry, bait not taken.....have a nice day my friend. 

[bearpaw]

Miles....it might get rid of much of the bickering you are complaining about if you avoid my posts. When I look back through this post the bickering you are talking about seems to be mostly your own. If you avoid my posts then we won't have the bickering that you so adamently say you hate....

Thankyou for taking my advice from several posts back. I have nothing against you, but you seem to be creating the very problem you are complaining about. I say we forget the whole thing and just try to support each other in our hunting endeavers....

 

[Ray]

Yes it is unfortunate, and now we all know about him and what he stands for.   What could possibly be left to this post other than complaining?   Now if you are going to post useful info in the area of activism, or perhaps letters you have written, or something you have done to try to help the issue, than great.   Other than that quit complaining about it.

A lot of people are completely unaware of who's where and what's going on. The intent may not be to bicker as you suggest. In addition to that there is good reason to share information and points of view. It's a forum. That's what people like to do with forums. Activism is very much about being aware of what is going on. If you are not aware then you don't know what to act on. I think it could be construed as insulting to tell someone who has made a topic regarding anti hunters in the top level of the government that they not are doing something useful by sharing the information. Your repetitive rants only feed the fire of negativity on the various political topics regarding hunting and 2nd Amendment matters and are pretty much counterproductive. If you have some facts to debunk the topic that would be something worth hearing about. Other than that I support deleting instigating responses as they serve little or no purpose.

[Alchase]

Activism starts from whining, bitching, and yes bickering.
Our forefathers did not one day say "the King wants to tax our tea"! Revolution!!!"
It was after decades of taxation without representation. Tea was just the final straw that broke the camels back per se`.
What is your final straw? Registering your weapons? Taxing and/or limiting your ammo? Coming into your home an taking all you weapons. They actually did this after Katrina and we heard nothing about it for months? Where do you think they got the list of people with weapons from? How about the State level, over the past 20+ years of continuously taking a day of your hunting season here, raising the cost of tags there. Playing us against each other (Archery, Blackpowder, Rifle). Hiring Bios with no hunting or fishing background that are supportive and sometimes active with the extreme anti hunting Eco groups. How about telling us they are killing off all the high mountain lakes to kill the rainbows and cuttthrout to plant Dooly Vardon that you won't be able to fish? With the logic that rainbow and cutthrout are not native. Then turning around and allowing Canadian Grey Wolves to populate areas they have never been in the past?
Closing down sportsmans rights to fish a river to minimize conflict with another group that gets the river to themselves during that time.

Pick your straw 

[runamuk]

Pick your straw 

My straw was the day they banned the sale of horses for slaughter in this country......

[bearpaw]

runamuk...you said a mouthful there, that has really hurt the livestock industry with the inability to get rid of useless horses.

[wolfbait]

runamuk...you said a mouthful there, that has really hurt the livestock industry with the inability to get rid of useless horses.

Not only that but it has caused alot of suffering, when the hay prices were so high a while back people dumped their stock on the reservation. Stock that is not use to being on range stand at the gate waiting to be fed, no one comes to feed them.

[bearpaw]

Definitely has ruined the market, some people couldn't afford to keep their horses and nobody wanted to buy them, starving horses were getting turned loose over here with noone to feed them.

Americans have a hang up about horses, in many countries they eat them. I have an Aussie friend who prefers horse meat over most other meats.

[woodswalker]

This link might get you to the vote directly  http://www.ussportsmen.org/Document.Doc?id=116
I see the WA demos voted yea...

Ya, I  hear ya Fred, the entire administration is slanted to the left so far it's going to take YEARS to get back to center after this. I hope there are still hunting seasons available for the peóns once the smoke screen has lifted.

Might be critter seasons....congress critters.