Should I become a muzzle loader or an archer?

[dylanthered]

I have been hunting in Eastern Washington with modern rifle.  I'm starting to figure out that I'm not going to get the type of hunting experience and results that I want.  So I'm considering committing myself to becoming either a muzzle loading hunter or archery hunter.  Any direction you could provide would be great.

My hunting goals:
- meat not trophy
- few hunters as possible (duh)
- willing to hike my tail off
- Eastern Cascades territory

I'm thinking that I need to hunt the wilderness to achieve my goals.  I need to do it early in the season so modern rifle won't work.  Also, in that thick wilderness a modern rifle is kind of overkill as I could be taking 20 to 40 yard shots.

Pros and cons?  Which way should I go?

- Dylan

[Holg3107]

I was in the same boat as you, i just moved to WA from Idaho and wanted to avoid the ridiculous crowds that I have heard about, so I picked up a bow. Had the absolute most exciting time of my life this year hunting for Roosevelt's in the Olympics. Not knowing much about the muzzleloader seasons I would say go with archery. Hunting the elk in the rut is nothing short of awesome.

[Buckmark]

Just stay a rifle hunter and put in for as many antlerless permits as you can, less hunters during some of those, meat in the freezer, and you dont need to buy any new equipment..

[bow4elk]

follow your interest and become proficient.  Rifle, blackpowder, or bow makes no difference.  Hone your hunting skills and you'll be successful with any/all of them.  For me it comes down to my passion, which is archery and getting really close.  I have no interest in 200 yards shots with a gun.  Nothing at all wrong with it but it's a personal satisfaction thing.  Hunting isn't a team thing, it's an individual thing...go with your gut and what you like.  it's your time in the woods.  It all boils down to what you want to derive from the experience.

There are tons of people to help you get proficient with whatever you choose 

[LittleJohn]

I would start a SOFTBALL TEAM.!!!!!  Hunting is stupid.
 
ARCHERY for sure. Longer season, either sex in lots of areas, fewer people , very rewarding, and u can shoot the same amo all year without waking-up the baby!!!!

[dreamingbig]

I am biased to archery but there are some great muzzleloader tags available and not as much competition for them.

[jstone]

Stay with Rifle find some private property. Or hunt another state this state sucks

[littlebuf]

I'm switching over to a bow for elk next year. i will always hunt deer with a rifle but a buddy of mine has 17 archery bulls and is a 2 time washington state elk calling champ, Ive finally decided to make the switch and hes going to teach me the "game" as he calls it. I'm already getting pretty good with a mouth reed (sure helps to have a good teacher)

[Skyvalhunter]

I say go with muzzleloader you will have a decent season and a good chance for a special permit.

[Gobble]

I hunted Muzzy for 8 yrs to get away from the crowds and as soon as it got crowded I switched to Bow. I still hunt rifle for deer and archery for elk. The great thing about the multi season tags I get to hunt all 3 again

[colockumelk]

Less people hunt with a ML than with a bow.  Also it is alot easier to go from a rifle to a ML, than from a Rifle to a bow.  Although like someone said as long as you dedicate yourself to either you will be able to shoot it just fine.  Although you can get away with alot more wiht a ML than you can with a bow.  You will have success sooner with a ML but once you master archery hunting you will have more opportunities, a longer season etc.  

I personally did it gradually.  I went from rifle to ML for a while and then wanted a longer season and tried it with a bow and never went back.  If you go with a bow expect to have alot of opportunities but not to fill your tag for awhile.  

[LongTatLaw]

In this state...BOW all the way!

If for no other reason than the much much longer season. Its a lil harder but I tell ya... a 70 lb doe deer will give me "buck" fever at 17 yards while a nice 4pt wont even get the heart going a lil at 150 yards if Im holding the 300 WM.

Archery is up close and personal.

There might be more bow hunters than ML but bows dont make sound so you get the sense that you are nearly alone because only visual confirmation will let ya know theres another hunter...not gun shots 2 canyons over!

With todays amazing gear...you could be a 40 yard shooter in days not weeks or months!!

Its an expensive move up front...  plan on around 1100$...

but buy the good stuff and do your homework and get the right stuff for the right reason and there doesnt have to be much more cost for many many years.

keeping sharpe fresh broadheads will cost about what ammo does...   you will also break or lose an arrow here and there!  But no reason to buy a new bow every year ( I just replaced a bow I happily used for 10 years and I guess Im glad I changed)....

come on over to Archery brother!
You'll wonder why ya didnt do it sooner!

[dylanthered]

Thanks for all the feedback folks and keep it coming.  This is great.

One thing that I want to clarify.  My goal is meat.  I don't want my decision to be based on the thrill of it all or feeling like a bad ass for one reason another.  So being "up close and personal" really doesn't matter to me.  I'm just trying to find an effective strategy to commit myself to.

[LongTatLaw]

if ya just wanna kill something then thats easy enough to do!

up close and personal is a matter of the game and u will share an experience with the animal more ummm...personal than if u shot it at 200 yards...

if thats doesnt interest u...   find a cow farmer and whack the one ya want with a sledge hammer....= meat

[colockumelk]

You say that now but when you have a screaming bull at 15 yds (even if you are not allowed to *censored* him) is one of the biggest thrills you can have.  Once that happens you will never go back. 

[Buckmark]

Thanks for all the feedback folks and keep it coming.  This is great.

One thing that I want to clarify.  My goal is meat.  I don't want my decision to be based on the thrill of it all or feeling like a bad ass for one reason another.  So being "up close and personal" really doesn't matter to me.  I'm just trying to find an effective strategy to commit myself to.

Like i said earlier, stick with your gun, apply for some doe permits and fill the tag, closest thing to a sure thing for getting meat there is..

[fishm@n]

I've been in your dilemma and moved to archery a few years ago..  but having been an archer before for years in Montana. I think you should try muzzleloader with your goals of being a meat hunter. Archery takes a lot of time to become proficient in comparison and you must resist a lot more shots than you would with a muzzy. I will not hunt elk in this state with a rifle again.. the woods are crawling with people!

[h2ofowlr]

I have been bow hunting since pre-teens.  You will need to practice a lot if your going to do the bow as you are limited on your range.  I hate hearing about all the lost animals due to people that decided to switch over and don't put in the time required to learn it.  Almost like those that don't shoot all year and sight there rifle in the week before the season.  You can't do that with archery.  Otherwise you will be telling everyone about the monster that you shot and lost.    It takes lots of practice, learn your yardage and become a great tracker.  I've had to help track many animals for guys as the phone calls lead to me for help, but they get to hear me grouch about there bad shot the whole time.

[M_ray]

Go with a bow Muzzleloaders seasons suck! 

[johnsc6]

If your goal is meat, buy locker beef, it's alot cheaper than the cost of hunting!!  Most people love the hunt , not the kill, I agree with the above posts on alot less muzzleloaders than archers, and don't let the wilderness fool you, I have tried that a couple times and have seen many more people in the wilderness than out while elk hunting, . Our wilderness elk hunting is a joke as far as how far you can go to get away from people, deer hunting many more options in the wilderness.

[ing]

Go with a bow Muzzleloaders seasons suck! 

Seriously?  I say go with a muzzleloader bow seasons suck.

[Curly]

No, go with bow.......ML seasons do suck.  Plus you are very limitted on what units you have to choose from with ML; Bow you have practically the whole state.

[dylanthered]

No, go with bow.......ML seasons do suck.  Plus you are very limitted on what units you have to choose from with ML; Bow you have practically the whole state.

Anybody have any more info specifically on why Muzzleloader seasons suck versus Bow seasons?  I realize that bow is earlier and longer. 

[halflife65]

I think that he might be saying that ML sucked in the past because of limited GMUs open to hunting and short seasons.  However, they changed that a bit this year, with some additional areas to hunt and additional draw tags.  It looks like they separated deer and elk, though, which could make it a bit more challenging (but allow you to go to different units to hunt different species - which could be a good thing.)

I drew the multi-season tag the first year it came out and ended up shooting a buck with a muzzleloader - which was super fun.  However, it also allowed me the chance to try archery and, once I did this, I've become a dedicated archer.  It's a lot harder - expect a lot of blown opportunities and frustration at first. 

[Built4Outdoors]

Hands down Archery, I have friends that do all of the above and being a former rifle hunter I would never go back. ML has short seasons and lots of closed area as I found out while helping a ML buddy find an elk this year. 

[Curly]

I think that he might be saying that ML sucked in the past because of limited GMUs open to hunting and short seasons.  However, they changed that a bit this year, with some additional areas to hunt and additional draw tags.  It looks like they separated deer and elk, though, which could make it a bit more challenging (but allow you to go to different units to hunt different species - which could be a good thing.)

I drew the multi-season tag the first year it came out and ended up shooting a buck with a muzzleloader - which was super fun.  However, it also allowed me the chance to try archery and, once I did this, I've become a dedicated archer.  It's a lot harder - expect a lot of blown opportunities and frustration at first.

The seasons sucked in the past for ML and they still suck due to short seasons and lack of GMU's.  They didn't really change it much......actually they eliminated an early elk hunt for ML on the West side.  They did add a bunch of deer hunting opportunities for ML but elk is still very limitted.  Just compare the archery vs. ML seasons in the regs:

[bow-n-head]

I don't know if cost is the equation, but archery can get expensive. (just ask my wife). Archery is a thrill ride I need every year. But in all fairness I have never hunted with a smoke pole.

[halflife65]

Great job, Curly.  That shows it pretty well.  Clearly, there are a lot more areas open to hunt with archery equipment - both early and late.  While opportunities were expanded slightly for ML, it is still way less than archery/modern.

I think that you need to take into account:
1.  Seasons (clearly archery has the advantage)
2.  Cost (advantage goes to ML - you can buy a decent ML for $350 and be on your way.  Archery costs a heck of a lot more for bow, arrows, range finder (not a MUST but you should really have one.)  Plus, you can use a lot of your same clothes that you used for modern for ML and (at least, I did) need to buy new stuff for archery (hot weather gear, better cammo in my case)
3.  Frustration level - probably (at least, initially) much higher than ML.  However, you do get rut for elk and a lot of opportunities.

As I mentioned above, I went the archery route.  To me, the challenge of the hunt is what it is all about (which is why I gave up on rifle - it was not too much of a challenge to get a buck, although a HUGE buck is always a challenge with any weapon.)

Good luck with whatever choice you make - there are a lot of people with a lot of info on this site no matter what you end up doing.

[coachcw]

I'll hunt with anything , but archery rules , you'll get hooked, Be prepaired to drop some serious coin though it gets expensive fast .good luck coach

[ing]

Yeah yeah yeah so bow hunters have longer seasons.  I f your meat hunting you'll be far more successfull hunting with a firearm. And out of state.

[M_ray]

Curly spells it out for ya just look what you get if you have an Eastside tag ... Now tell me those late hunt opportunities are the same as archery or are any good at all  It's not even worth spending the gas money on the late hunt! The overall list is much shorter I can't see where they changed enough to make it equivalent! 

[Little Fish]

I went through the same process you are going through a few years back and since I didn't seriously start hunting until my late 30s I had a lot of catching up to do and figuring things out.  Here is the process I went through and where I've ended up.

When I started out I went modern, but really only hunted a few days during a couple seasons with friends who had an established camp. It was fun, but generally I found that there were a lot of people in the woods. After this I tried muzzle loader on the theory that there are way fewer muzzle guys in the state. This is true, but if you look at how few open areas there are relative to archery and modern it was nearly as crowded as modern. Finally I switched to archery and although I see other people in the woods there are not nearly as many people and I feel like I have the woods to myself. So it really depends what's important to you in hunting. I love doing it all (modern, muzzle and archery), but at the top of the list of what I enjoy is the feeling of kicking around in the woods by myself/with a partner. If I had to summarize the best parts of archery hunting (and I am talking archery elk) this would be the list:

Uncrowded/Woods to myself relative to muzzle or modern
Fantastic weather (most of the time) and a great time to be in the woods
I see 10x more animals than during other seasons (keeps things exciting even if I can't get close to them)
I have the chance to take a bull or cow by either calling them in or spot and stalk

[carpsniperg2]

do them bolth pick one for deer one for elk i muzzle deer archery elk try bolth see which one you like better

[TheHunt]

Stick to rifle or move to muzzleloader.  Tooooo many people archery hunting.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

72 it is not just archers that leave animals lay. every method has its bad apples. i muzzle hunt. i prefer it to the others.
from what i see is you need to decide what you want out of it. meat... easy. bow. i could shoot a cow every year. but i hunt hard and off the road. run into tons of people that road hunt and wonder why they cant fill a tag. like i said i prefer to ML hunt, but that is me.

[carpsniperg2]

and to me being a landowner we have never once found a dead archery deer on our property but lots of people wound and shoot to shoot with a rifle or muzzleloader even the public ground i hunt i have yet to find a dead animal lost to bowhunting but i don't hunt were everyone else hunts i usally don't see any people were we hunt not many ambious hunters that put to many miles on and wdfw hates me could not be more right with the wording every method has its bad apples i know alot of bow hunter that shoot there bow better at 100 than most people do with a muzzleloader or rifle it is sad to say the least but we all need to be bound by the love of the sport and stay united if we don't and we start nitpickin eachother thats what the anti people want and lets not give it to them

[M_ray]

muzzleloader. I find way to many dead lost animals with arrrows laying near by rotting and going to waste. Oh ya whoever stuck the 6x6 elk and never found it by Riffe lake nice bull dude . Totally awesome finding a big rotting wasted trophy. I dont have anything against bowhunters im one but too many knuckleheads flingin arrows already.

Hey 72 I have heard this argument before from Rifle hunters and I'm here to tell you when you are an Archer you find just as many lost animals in the late Archery hunt that rifle hunters didn't find! The problem is there is no late Rifle for most of you guys to see that your compadres make just as many bad hits as any other method!!!  

[72k5blzr]

Oh come on now there is how many more rifle hunters than archery hunters if lost kills is even close in numbers than its bad for archery. And carp your absolutley spot on about in fighting being bad for us sportsman. I like bowhunting i do. And i will say this ive been really spooked by idiots scoping me and blazing away at moving game not seeing the whole picture with me in it and ive never had any of these irresponsible type experiences during an archery season.

[M_ray]

Oh come on now there is how many more rifle hunters than archery hunters if lost kills is even close in numbers than its bad for archery. And carp your absolutley spot on about in fighting being bad for us sportsman. I like bowhunting i do. And i will say this ive been really spooked by idiots scoping me and blazing away at moving game not seeing the whole picture with me in it and ive never had any of these irresponsible type experiences during an archery season.

Really? now you are going to say that because there are more rifle hunters that it's an exeptable number of lost animals and it doesn't mean as much since the numbers might match that of Archers? I'm saying that late Archers find your mistakes and don't complain and throw it in your face! How many days did you spend afield last year? I hunted 24 days for Moose 12 days for Deer and 5 days for Elk for a total of 41 days and a hell of alot of miles cross country infact one 4 day period we kept track of 40 miles on foot!!! And I found 1 animal that was not recovered by a hunter and it was from a rifle!!!  Your argument doesn't hold much water we are all considered the same user group and again late archers find your mistakes as well so don't sling mud!!! 

[funkster]

I will put my 2 cents in.The woods are really getting crowed during archery season. The last two years I have ran into guys bragging on how they hit an elk and did not recover it. The next question I ask is how long have you been bow hunting?  Almost all of them say "this is my first year hunting" and more than a few say "first year with bow but rifle hunted for years. I counted 7 lost elk this year alone from first year archer's. I don't really blame them because most of them just don't know. I really feel that ethics and tradition passed down from family to family is being lost. The greed of harvesting is out waying the memories made with grandpa,dad,uncle etc,it is very sad. When you are practicing out at the range and a guy pulls up and his first shot is out at 80 yards and shoots 5-6 arrows and doesn't even hit the dot, then says "I am good for the season".There is no doubt why animals are being wounded.

[GoPlayOutside]

I archery hunt...so I would say go with muzzleloader

[M_ray]

ya and if youd quit movin thru the woods so damn fast youd be back at camp celebrating your accomplishment a hell of alot sooner. Some guys on here will go "wow that mray sure hunts alot" and others will go "huh whatever weekend warrior" me. i own a small construction business and this year was the toughest ive seen. point being if you want to split hairs over who had more time in the field this year i will take you up on that i didnt work much and you didnt mention any bird season or coyote hunts or bear hunts. ya sounds stupid huh.

No I think your the one who looks stupid now 72 you missed the point completely  ... it's not a pissin match over who spent more time afield ... you were defending rifle hunters vs archery hunters loosing game!!! You are so busy being insecure and defensive that you can't even stick to the subject! I'll spell it out a little slower so you can stay on topic, The comparison of time had to do with the amount of lost game I ran across which was 1 rifle kill lost. The point was in that much time afield and in the late hunt as well I personally did not find any Archery lost game. The comparison of how many miles was to show that I don't road hunt!!! which means that I have a greater chance of finding said lost animals than someone who road hunts ... Ya still with me? I think most could see where I was going with this.

OK so as far as back at camp celebrating??? you are obviously a newbie to this forum and I highly doubt others who know me here will agree with your quotes. If I were just meat hunting then I would be back early ... but we usually hunt specific animals first and last year was a case in point. If I can't connect then on the last possible day of my Hunt's I'll settle for something less for the meat if I need it! I have eaten tags & Special permits before not for lack of finding an animal to shoot but for lack of not finding the right one!!! And that's not a slam on the way you or others hunt at all that's just to show that the reason a person spends allot of time afield isn't allways because they are a bad hunter    I have had hunts where I wasn't holding out for anything special and been done quick and other times I didn't need meat and passed  I passed on two Elk in Montana at 20 yards allready this year!!! So who sounds stupid now???

[DJR]

This thing is kind of sliding off topic but I'll put my oar in the water. Are you talking about solo hunting elk? If so consider the weather during early archery which can be pretty warm over here on the east side. I've got one of the any-season tags this year and that means my usual partners are not present for two out of the three seasons.

Had a couple of opportunities during archery but no arrows sent. Always on my mind was what I was going to do with something the size of a small horse once it hit the ground in near 80 degree temperatures.

Just got back from hunting the M/L season. Hunted hard except for one day I had to come out to take care of a vehicle problem (tree fell on it) which means up and in the woods before daylight and maybe back for lunch, maybe not, then the timber again until after dark. Saw elk alright but no spikes.

I'll hit the center-fire season for at least the first three or four days then the late archery again.

Anyway to answer your question if you intend to do this thing alone consider that you will have a pretty tough time retrieving the meat (your goal) from an early archery back country solo hunt. Problem still exists but not as bad during the M/L season.

My solution to the same question (I'm pretty much a meat hunter) is fiddle around here in Washington but spend the money on a serious DIY out of state hunt. That is an option that probably won't be there in a few years but for now is probably your best chance for meat.   

Just another opinion.

DJR

[DJR]

Let me add to the above that if you are asking the question for yourself and your present centerfire hunting partners you probably need to make sure they are equally committed (particularly if it's archery) or you will be on your own anyway.

DJR

[septemberfan]

If your sole purpose is for meat then I agree that you should save your money and buy a beef it would be a lot cheaper.  My dad and I have had this argument about wild game being cheap meat. It didn't take me long to prove my point of how expensive hunting is.

That being said I have hunted rifle for 5 years, bow for 5 years, and ML for 17 years.  I think an antlerless permit for rifle is your best chance (and cheapest) to put meat in your freezer.

As far as wounded or lost animals.  I agree that every weapon has its share of lost animals.  Bow probably gets the worst rap because it is so visible. I mean it's not like you can see an animal running around with a bullet sticking out of it or lying next to it. We need to stick together regardless of how you hunt. The important thing to remember is not take a shot that you are not sure will result in a quick kill.

[Red Dawg]

I am not a meat hunter by any means. Beef and pork are much better tasting and are much cheaper. That said if I were to change today knowing what the special permits are I would switch to bow. Sounds like the bowhunters have a kick ass time.

[CBP1888]

I'm a rifle and muzzleloader hunter from the Rocky Mountains. I moved to Washington for work and decided to give muzzleloader hunting a chance. I don't like big crowds. Opening morning I shot a spike at about 100 yards, dropped it dead in it's tracks.

 I was with a friend who helped me pack it out. We just went today to the butcher and picked up 225 lbs of processed elk meat. I'm devoted to the muzzleloader in Washington State.

Leave the roads and you will find the elk!

[ing]

Thanks for all the feedback folks and keep it coming.  This is great.

One thing that I want to clarify.  My goal is meat.  I don't want my decision to be based on the thrill of it all or feeling like a bad ass for one reason another.  So being "up close and personal" really doesn't matter to me.  I'm just trying to find an effective strategy to commit myself to.

I'd definatly stick with the gun seasons then.