How Many Shots?

[SilkWWU]

One of the guys I know was elk hunting a few years ago, ran into an elk that had steel plating on its sides.  The Elk took 6 rounds before it finally went down.  When I say took, I mean it was hit 6 times.

[colockumelk]

We camped next to this group of guys a couple of years ago that climb the hill near camp and wait for elk to walk through the opposite hill side.  Once the elk started walking through, they would unload.  They were taking 600+ yard shots, across a road, at a spike.  Just kept lobbing bullets until they finally connected.  A foot high and a foot to the left was their motto.  And we wonder how hunters get a bad name

Was this in the Colockum.  The rifle season during the Colockum is a disgrace to the good name of hunting.  That is the land of multiple shots.  I've seen and heard guys shooting spikes that were easily 600-800 yds away SURROUNDED BY COWS!!!!  We should all thank god that PETA or the like do not go up there with their video cameras because the reputation of Washington hunters would be seriously damaged.  

The people of WA would get to see guys lined up on the roads slinging lead as fast as they can at a string of elk like a shooting gallery.  Or guys driving their ATV's all over closed roads with dead spikes on the back of their ATV's with limbs and heads dragging on the ground.  NOt saysing everyone up there does this but there is ALOT of that stuff going on.  

[fisheral87]

My Dad used to work at the True Value Hardware store in Concrete. Every year, this one old guy would come in to buy his hunting license and tags. He would then buy one round of 30-06. According to him, that's all he ever needs.

Well when you can walk out on your back porch with a stiff Irish coffee, sit down in your chair and get a good rest on the railing I'd only need one round too.  Unless it was my third coffee.  

[Gobble]

I missed 5 legal bucks opening weekend 5 yrs ago. I had only missed once prior to that. Found out that my scope came loose (20 yr old locktite powdered over time) and one of the deer I shot at was about a 170 5 pt  

It happens  

Let me just clear something up so no one thinks I just pulled the gun out of the case opening day.

I ALWAYS shoot my rifle weeks before the season to make sure it dialed in from the previous year. . I did that year as well and instead of a 3 shot group that was the size of a quarter or less at 150 yrds this time it was 3 shots in a 3in group. I thought that was wierd but concluded that I must have been off that day. Un beknownest to me my 20 yr old locktite "Powdered" after I switched to High Energy rounds and nocked my scope loose (was not loose enough to rattle but loose enough to mess my pattern up) Just didn't want to give the wrong impression. I have NEVER missed an animal while benchresting up to that point, so I knew something was wrong.  

[boneaddict]

found it, Idabooner told it already.....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,811.0.html

[halflife65]

The point is is that it has been found that when your adrenaline goes through the roof and your heart is beating at 170 bpm you lose all of your fine motor skills which is what you use for accurate shooting.  There is nothing you can do about it.  When you are that excited you WILL lose all of your fine motor skills.  The only thing you can do about it is to learn how to control your excitement and adrenaline so that you do not hit 170bpm so you maintain your fine motor skills.  

First of all, I want to say "thanks" to Colockum for his service to our country and that I don't presume to relate my experience to being in a gunfight with anybody anywhere - and hopefully I never am.

That being said, he's absolutely correct about nervousness and lack of fine motor skills.  I wish I could remember where I read this, but I found something that described the body's natural reaction to stress – there is nothing you can do about it when you become that stressed.  Experience and training are about the only thing that can overcome it.

When I was 12 or so, I was hunting for blacktails with my dad.  A little forky stepped out in front of us at about 100 yards and he told me to shoot.  I had beeen shooting really well at the range, but it wasn’t the best situation for a young kid to shoot his first deer and he might not have had me do that if he had to do it over again (parents learn, too.)   I had to shoot offhand and the rifle was a bit heavy for me.  I distinctly remember watching the deer going in and out of the scope and when I finally pulled the trigger I saw a geyser of dirt and snow erupt in front of us at about 30 yards.  I was in so much shock I just stood there and didn’t even put another shell in the gun.  Maybe some other people’s reaction to that situation would have just been to unload the gun at the deer.   My dad looked at me and told me to shoot again and I didn’t move.  He turned around and just shot the deer.  

After that experience he told me that if I can hold it together for 20 seconds I had the rest of my life to be excited.  It seemed like “no *censored*?” advice at the time, but it definitely gave me something of a mantra to concentrate on when I was younger and I’ve never had a meltdown again.  It happened once and that’s it.  I’ve since shot more deer than I can remember, some bears and some elk and, while I’ve missed, it wasn’t because I was overcome by excitement.  I’ve heard of bow hunters that have their process memorized before they shoot (grip, pull the bow back, select the right pin, make sure that it is level, concentrate on back muscles to squeeze the trigger, etc.)  to help them concentrate on something other than being too excited.  Maybe people that are overly excited need to slow things down for themselves and remember what they did in pracice to make a good shot.  And not take stupid 600 yard shots.

[colockumelk]

Well said halflife.  There is a couple of books that are worth reading.  THey are "On Killing" and "On Combat"  THey talk about the Psychology of killing and the Physiology of killing.  THey speak about what happens to your body when your body hits the fight or flight stage which we all experience before we kill an animal.  While it mostly relates to combat it does use hunting as an example.

In fact our body goes through many of the same things when confronted with a huge buck or bull as it does when in a combat situation.  Here is what I would recommend doing to prepare for that moment.  Obviously we need to make sure our scope is on.  So go to the range and zero your weapon using a bench rest.  Once it's dialed in never shoot from a steady shooting position again.  Shoot like you would in the field.  If you use shooting stick then use them.  Obviously you can't simulate a 350 inch bull but you can do a 50 yd sprint with full gear on, do 20 pushups and then site in and give yourself 3 seconds to shoot. 

Be patient at first you wont hit crap.  But after you do things like this you'll be deadly.  Also for you "snipers" out there that plan or would even consider shooting out to 500 yds.  Practise at that distance.  Do you even know how much drop you have at that distance??? 

Here's a quick table for those of you that insist on shooting out to that distance.  If you don't believe me then google the Army Sniping Manual  "FM 23-10"

If you zero your weapon at 300 meters here is the amount of drop you should expect from your 30 caliber weapon.  So if your going to shoot that far then practise that far.  Also pleas read the following field manual so you know how to adjust for wind temperature, elevation etc.  Otherwise you will miss or worse wound an animal. 
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/23-10/ch3.htm#fig3_24

400meters  14" of drop  (1ft 2")
500meters  34" of drop  (2ft 10")
600meters  59" of drop   (4ft 11")
700meters  93" of drop   (7ft 8")
800meters  135" of drop  (11ft 3")
900meters  187" of drop  (15ft 7")
1000meters  257" of drop (21ft 5")

[wastickslinger]

I dang near emptied a 20 round mini 14 clip one time. Sucker started out at a trot at about 300 yards, when I quit shooting he was at about 50mph at 600 yards. 4X scope, not meant for shooting that far but it was fun. I was watching snow fly all around him as he darted and weaved. It had to have been about 15-18 rounds. I cant believe I didnt hit em. 

......Coyote that is. 

[Gobble]

I agree 100% Clockumelk.

I used to tape the ballistics chart on my gun so I knew EXACTLY how much drop my gun had at any given distance and with how much wind it shifted. Not that I would take a 500 yrd shot but you never know when the Buck/Bull of a lifetime may pop out and you have one opportunity to put it down. Now I just keep a laminated copy in my pack. I have shot coyotes out past 400+ and brought them down with one shot so I'm coinfident in my weapon and my ability but this is not for everyone.

[rudedawg1085]

i fired off 3 at a one deer last year, dident know the second one hit and finished it off with the third

[youngchristof]

four shots  running whitetail with a big dirt hill directly behind it.  250 yards  was a dandy buck   

[colockumelk]

I dang near emptied a 20 round mini 14 clip one time. Sucker started out at a trot at about 300 yards, when I quit shooting he was at about 50mph at 600 yards. 4X scope, not meant for shooting that far but it was fun. I was watching snow fly all around him as he darted and weaved. It had to have been about 15-18 rounds. I cant believe I didnt hit em. 

......Coyote that is. 

That is hands down the best training and practise for deer and elk hunting marskmenship.  Give you the adrenaline rush of the hunt and also gives you realistic hunting situations.  Plus if you can hit a coyote at 400yds an elk is no problem. 

[Caseyd]

One is plenty.. hell I only put three in my rifle anyway.

On a side not Ive been out at Kenmore this week and its a pretty sad deal how awful your average shooter is....if I had a dollar for ever time I have herd "thats good enough to hit a deer"  Id be a rich man.  

You there on Monday? I came through about 4.

I was one of those "it's good enough to hit a dear" but I put a 4 shot group right on target

[Alchase]

So next time on tv when you see a cop or soldier firing rapid fire at a guy 20yds away and he misses every time don't be like me and say "I could do better" because you wouldn't be able to do better.  Unless you've been in multiple gun fights.

Suppression fire, lol

In a lot of the shootout videos shown on TV you can actually see the fight or flight reflex in work. Many times do you see someone shooting while running away, then moving around erratically while trying to reacquire the site picture.
You can also see someone who has had CQC training when they are firing in a controlled manner never loosing the site picture and advancing tactically.
As colockumelk stated, the first time in actual combat is an eye opener and you better have had the right training and muscle memory to act instinctively.

First time combat confusion "Yo Mac, what the heck is that noise?" "Get your a$$ down you idiot those are bullets!"

I kid you not, lol

[KimberRich]

I've missed on a few single shots and missed a damn nice buck with 2 shots.  Can't explain it..  I had actually forgotten about it until I read this thread and that was a good thing!!!
It was on eof the nicest WT I've ever seen in the woods.  80 yards broadside walking... Missed.  It takes of down in the timber and stops at about 160 yards quartering away.. Miss.