Methow report and POS guide in a red raft

[ribka]

Managed to get 2 days off last week and drove up to the Methow. Went during the week to avoid crowds. Fished in the lower river section.
Hooked up with 16 and caught 12. 9/12 were wild and let go. Caught 4 over 32 inches and and fought well

Started swinging leeches and had a few strikes. Switched to egg patterns and san juan worms and that seemed to be the ticket,

Was fishing one run about 1/2 mile from the road. Had 3 different guides stop and pull in their boats by me. 2 guides above me with 4 clients and 1 guide below with two clients. All  ( 6 guys!) started fishing within 30 feet of me. I looked up and down stream and saw 1/2 mile each direction with plenty of areas to fish. One of the guides, a young punk,  in a red raft, started making  comments about my gear and fishing. What's up with all of the *censored*s in this state?

Ended up leaving for another run. Found another place 1/2 downstream. Fishing and hook up. I hear screaming and this fu%$ stick guide is yelling at me to get out of the water because he wants to float the run I was fishing. I stood in the river ignoring him. He went around me and started cursing me. Where do these pos's get their guide license? I watched him trying row his red raft and it was obvious he had no friggin clue what he was doing.

Caught 2 groups of 4 Mexicans poaching steelhead and bull trout. Using big treble hooks and bait. Went up to all of them said it was against the law to fish this way and said calling police and La Migra. They all left.

[oldschool]

 What is it about steelhead that make people act like Aholes. What is a *censored*?

[ribka]

*censored*, dbag, fstick, a-hole. Pretty much universal term for an unlikable, obnoxious individual

With miles and miles of open fishable river on the Methow why would 3 guides stop and fish with 6 clients right next to me? I got the impression trying to run me off this section of river. Also picked lots of trash, discarded fishing line, bait containers ( bait is illegal) along the banks of the Methow while fishing. This is a beautiful and unique jewel in Washington. Why would anyone want  to defile such a beautiful place?

Poeple really po me sometimes

[tomy salami]

The only deterrent to guideboats, or anybody doing that kind of things is payback.

Foul my spot when there is plenty of space to be had..........two strike rule.

After two strikes, I let him drift down river. Catch up to him, cast over his gear............or if he is running plugs...........lowhole him and drop 40lb anchor on said plugs. People will jack you around forever if you are not assertive.  They also remember to give a wide berth next time you cross paths. Even if you get the stink eye, they will respect your space.

The exceptions to this rule are as follows: Know the river you are on. Newbies can't pull these things if there is an unspoken rule of how most fish that spot. When in Rome, do as Romans do.........don't anchor up in a hole the sleds pound every day. Also, do not do these things with you wife or girlfriend in the boat. Gonna play hard, might have to pay hard. Crowded rivers..........there are no rules. Just try to be nice, it is a social atmosphere. Lastly, lonely rivers, like E. Wa, and the OP.........know your role. Keep your space until you know whats up...........New guides, they can be the most aggressive (struggling to get their fish and all). First class guides render large distances whenever possible. They do this because they will get their fish either way, and they don't always want you learning for free.

[ribka]

20 years ago when I was younger and more impulsive would have swam out to his raft and pulled him in the water and commenced pounding him.

I simply stood in the river and he had to go around me. One of his clients in the raft,  an older guy, apologized when he drifted by me.

I was wading and fly fishing so no way to really f with him. If I would have cast my line over him and he has my $60 fly line.

Working in  law enforcement over 20 years and run across guys like this quite often on the job. Sh#$t bags like this guy want you to react by baiting you then they sue you and make up some bs story. Has happened to many co-workers over the years. I just laughed it off.  Not let this punk get under my skin. Not worth it to lose my job. I am a big believer in karma. Act like a total prick your entire life and it is going to come back and get you.

Calling the guide association in the state see if I can't get his guide license yanked.

[Red Dawg]

I would have filled his raft with the biggest boulders I could have thrown. No reason for people to do crap like that. There are many guides that feel like Banky's dont belong on rivers and they should be the only ones that can fish it. I know of one guide that ran into me and did nearly the same thing that happened to you has some serious dents in his boat, now that I am older I probably would have done the same thing you did but it would have been very hard.

[echohill]

were the guide boats flyfishing  or gear fishing? that sucks...too bad some dumb*censored*s feel like they own the river.

[tomy salami]

Deflate the tires...........is he really needs it, slash em.

[Crunchy]

Man you guys are ruthless when it comes to fishin.  Hey I love fishing but it aint that important to me to come to dukes about it, or slash someones tires.  Let the guy be a D1ck.  Who cares we all have much more important issues to stress about.  Fishing is destress time.

[ribka]

The guy's clients were fly fishing.
Do not know what is happening in out culture but seem to run into more and more sh&%t bags in the woods and on rivers and lakes.

[MuleySniper]

Deflate the tires...........is he really needs it, slash em.

That is a chicken *censored* move. If you have a problem with a guy, confront him. Don't be a *censored* and go slashing tires, makes sportsmen look bad and people already have enough things to worry about when they leave their rig at a put in or take out
MS
Ha ha too funny, I just looked and another word used for a cat is the censored one

[ICEMAN]

Lets not suggest illegal activity please. If you are thinking it, keep it to yourself.

[tomy salami]

Never had to flatten a tire...........happened to a buddy of mine once, though. He deserved it, and knew it.

I agree the tires are a last ditch gig. I listed my usual defense already. It works.

Being a nice guy on the water definitely goes so much farther. However, sometimes somebody wants to take advantage. That does not fly with me. I go to great lengths to fish waters where space and productive holes are plentiful, and my leisure time is at a premium. I purposely keep almost excessive space between me and others.............I don't care if somebody tries to lowhole me.......just make it 70 yards plus. Why some guides will pass me, and have their guys cast over my gear is beyond me, but after two times with the same guy...it is not free.

[Ice Cap]

I recently had two guides with two boats full of clients cross the water I was fishing on the Grande Ronde. There was plenty of water for them to go behind me and plenty of room on the opposite side for them to stay off the water I was fishing. Both guides just smiled at me as they went by. Later that day I came around a bend and there they were. All the clients strung out down a run swinging flies. I had three choices when passing them. Behind, on the opposite side or right down the middle over the top of their lines. You should have seen the steam coming off the heads of the guides when I went right over the top. All I said was that paybacks are a bitch and the head guide quickly changed his tune. The next time they passed us they were courteous and passed behind us.

[tomy salami]

Big  10-4 on that Ice Cap. Always be nice.........until its time not to be nice.

Guides, especially new ones will be as aggressive as you allow. The green ones usually are the ones struggling for fish. Vets, on the other hand will get the job done either way and do not have to get as intrusive to your hole...........unless fishin is really tight.

 Always try to be as courteous as possible on the water. Corking another fisherman will make him remember your boat for quite awhile.

Some may call my tactics a touch militant. So be it. Guides like to use the excuse that they are trying to make a living......well, I consider fishing required therapy. Other fishermen will commit these faux pas without knowing. How are they ever going to learn (and remember) what to do and what not to do without a firm correction?

[Ice Cap]

This discussion actually brings up another point.
Many times while floating rivers I will come upon a wading fly fisherman. I usually try to pass behind to completely avoid their water. All too often the fisherman will wade back in closer to shore and I can no longer go behind them due to the water being too shallow.

For those of you that don't know this, all you have to do is motion the boat to pass behind you and if there is enough water an experienced boater will do just that.

[whacker1]

I like to use the skiing method - on your left or on your right as you overtake a skiier.  Communicate with the wading fisherman like was suggested, so that you can simplify the overtaking process. 

[jackelope]

was it a cat boat?

[fishcrazy]

was it a cat boat?

They are an inlflatable pontton boat. Ofter referred to as a cat. Short for Cataraft.

Kris

[ribka]

Not a cat. Regular raft

Just to clarify . I have been an avid whitewater canoer and drift boat user for over 30 years so am familiar with the rules of the river. Whenever  someone comes near me in a boat/raft when I am fishing on the river I always ask if I need to move. Prior to this guy in the red raft threatening me 2 guides in different rafts just rowed around me saying I did not need to move and they had plenty of room to maneuver around me. This guide just wanted to push me out of a good run so his clients could access it.

[jackelope]

was it a cat boat?

They are an inlflatable pontton boat. Ofter referred to as a cat. Short for Cataraft.

Kris

right...i was asking if it was a cat...not what a cat is...

[fisheral87]

Fishing is destress time.

Word. And I'm a big fella but unless that guy comes nose to nose with me I'll just cast out and pull one out above him as he rows his sorry self down river. 

[Little Dave]

I got the impression trying to run me off this section of river. Also picked lots of trash, discarded fishing line, bait containers ( bait is illegal) along the banks of the Methow while fishing.

Bring a camera and assert your rights under state law.
Maybe print this one out and bring it with you:

RCW 77.15.210 Obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife — Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of obstructing the taking of fish[, shellfish,] or wildlife if the person:

     (a) Harasses, drives, or disturbs fish, shellfish, or wildlife with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof; or

     (b) Harasses, intimidates, or interferes with an individual engaged in the lawful taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife or lawful predator control with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof.

     (2) Obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife is a gross misdemeanor.

     (3) It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution for obstructing the taking of fish, shellfish, or wildlife that the person charged was:

     (a) Interfering with a person engaged in hunting outside the legally established hunting season; or

     (b) Preventing or attempting to prevent unauthorized trespass on private property.

     (4) The person raising a defense under subsection (3) of this section has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence.

[tomy salami]

There are no RCW codes on proper fishing conduct.

Social norms and self governing are rule of the day. I like it better this way anyways. We have enough laws. I even get mad when I see another guy get corked. I get happy again when I see the perpetrator get what he got comin.......

Less random acts of unkindness would occur if we policed the idiots within our own ranks, socially, as a group. Not saying everybody need to be throwin down or nothing, but firm words will let somebody know they aint doin it right. More should stand up for themselves on the water, too often I see some guy get lowholed and he just lets it happen.

[Little Dave]

Firm words sure, but where self-governing includes retaliatory vandalism as the enforcement model, no thanks.

The laws are our social framework.  This is the one that establishes our right of way when fishing or hunting in a place were we are allowed to be.  Should there be any question of the matter, this will be the final answer. 

Fine is $1079, a gross misdemeanor, bail is $526.
Plus you are entitled to recover three times actual damages plus attorney fees.

Knowing the law might be just what a guy needs to stand up for his rights.

[tomy salami]

I have never seen anybody ever get a ticket for casting over another guys gear. Or for anchoring up 50 feet below a hole somebody is backtrolling. The RCW states "Harasses, intimidates, or interferes.........." 

If somebody is drift or fly fishing on the bank, and another boat free drifts by, with 6 lines in the water .........Hard to hang a RCW on that. Even though it is a huge social faux pas on an uncrowded river. The only way to prevent it from happening again, is to cork him downriver.

An strategic cast or the proper employment of anchor, below the offending boat, when caught downriver is key to letting somebody know not to do it again. Remember the two strike rule.

The law is great and all, just seams social governing has a more impressing effect on a man. Most are much more concerned with how others in their immediate sphere of life think of an act. Peer pressure is not always bad. Do people drive crazy with their pregnant wife?  No, and it is not because some RCW says not to.

The law will never keep idiots from fouling fishing spots. They have better things to do, anyways.

I keep idiots from fouling my fishing spots.......you should too.

[boneaddict]

Have to admit, have been really pissed off before on the river. 

[dbllunger]

had to skip ahead...slashing tires, and damaging peoples vehicles while they are not around.....what a lame ass piece if *censored* would even suggest this.  I have had issues with other fishermen and even guides.  I simply explain the problem, the solution, and the alternative.  I am not expecting anything more or different then I give.  I WILL NOT BE PUSHED OR CROWDED OUT OF A FISHING LOCATION OR LINE BY A JERK FISHERMEN OR GUIDE!!!!!   I will share gladly with anyone courteous and willing to give back some space.  I will move the first time after explaining the situation, but be prepared to trade paint or if you push again.   

[tomy salami]

I wrote it.

You obviously did not keep reading.

[7mmfan]

The thing that really frustrates me about all this is that I am a guide, and I fish on that river. I always make an effort to give any bank fisherman as much room as possible, because they are on the bank and I am in my boat. It takes me 1 minute to float out to the next run and start fishing while it could take him, especially on that river, a solid 10 to 15 minutes to get to the next piece of water. Not only does it keep the piece with the bank angler but it makes my clients know i'm not an a-hole, which usually helps the tip  If the guy works for himself then thats a bitch, but if the guy works for a company, I guarantee the owner will want to know about it. I work for an established company and we've canned guides for treating other people on the river that way. If you run into it again, try in one way or another, to find out who he guides for. The best way to get back at him is to get his a$$ fired.

[fisheral87]

piece*  peace, how much you spending on that edumacation? 

What's your bosses number by the way? You didn't provide lunch last time.   

Moose

[7mmfan]

The client is supposed to bring lunch, you know that. And if they get pissy about it they get rocks thrown at them