any reports around Ellensburg yet?

[Broken Arrow]

i just got  mountain ridge repot from my bubby, fist time he has rifle hunted in years.... he is an archery guy, bit wanted to pack in with his horse, he hunted Quilomen, siad he saw about 400 elk, about 100 hunters and has came across 3 elk killed and not found...2 cows and a 1X3.....said they have not had any shots at true spike, but have seen lots of cows, big bulls and many spikes that are "non spikes" aka 1x2 or more........

[colockumelk]

Saw alot of elk all week. No shooters. Only saw two spikes and they were not legal. The Colockum unit is getting wiped out. In the next few years there will be no good hunting left in the Naneum. 10 bulls were taken on top of Naneum canyon opening morning and one guy told me it was like a slaughterfest. Everybody shooting all at once together ? Is this real hunting. My buddy and I were taken a drive mid-day up by the game reserve and saw guys actually walking the fence line on the reserve waiting for elk to come out of there. This is pathetic! Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?

 

Read this article I wrote awhile back.  It pretty much sums up what needs to happen and why.   http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/80

If the current trend in the Colockum continues there will not be enough bulls by 2012 to breed.  By 2013-14 there wont be any bulls left.  And yeah I agree stewcamp it isn't hunting up there it is just slaughter.  

[WSU]

Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?

Did you report the mule deer poaching?  That would be a good start to doing something about it.  When I was up there, I reported a possible illegal deer killing.

[C-Money]

Well, lets see how the true spike thing works out for a couple years. The first year of the 3pt min on deer was the year I heard the most illeagle bucks killed and left. Still hear of some left to rot each year but not like that first year. I figured it would be pretty bad up there in the Colockum this year, but people that I have talked to, have seen a few 1x2's that are hopefully gonna make it. I do think we will have a better bunch of bulls in the future under this rule. At least we can still hunt elk up there with out a special tag. I have also heard quite a few stories of F&W nailing poachers this year. I am looking forward to Saturday! Cant wait to get back up there and enjoy elk hunting. Wish I was not on call for fire on Friday, or I'd be up with Spur hunting sooner! To close, lets see how many young bulls make it this year and next, before we declare the Colockum heard doomed. I am not arguing against the fact the heard is in trouble.

[colockumelk]

I agree C-Money I'd rather the true spike thing work out, I just don't think it will.  The WDFW freely admits that they only plan on spike survival increasing by 15-20%. 

Currently 75% of all yearling bulls are killed during the modern rifle season.  A further 10% of yearling bulls die each year of natural causes, predation etc.  So each year only 15% of your yearling bulls live.  These 15% that survive past their first year now have to face poachers and Indians.   Also bulls face a 5% natural mortality rate each year.  (Again fighting, predators disease etc.) 

So lets say 100 bulls are born. 100%
75 bulls are killed 75%. of original population
Plus 10% die of natural causes. 10% of original population.
You are now left with only 15 bulls/15% of the original population.
At 2 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 10% of original population.
At 3 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 5% of original population.
At 4 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 0% of original population left. 
This is of course pretending that poachers or Indians wont kill any of them. 

While true spike will slow the bull populations decline it wont stop it.  IMHO the only way to stop the decline is for permit only.  Even with true spike too many of the yearling bulls are going to be taken each year.  If the best case scenario is true and say 30% more live that still leaves you with a 55% first year mortality rate.  In order to sustain a herd you need to have at least 50% survival rate each year.  In order to grow the herd you want a good 60-70% survival rate.  I just don't see "true spike" doing that for the herd. 

I predict that in 2012 after the true spike has had three years to work you will see it go to permit only in the Colockum.  They also need to reduce the cow population by 25%.  Most of the cows don't get bred and are not contributing to the herds health. 

[WSU]

Is it really accurate that you have a 5% mortality rate every single year for bulls that make it through hunting season.  Also, your numbers are over simplified.  A 5% mortality rate does not mean that 5% of the original year class would be die, but 5% of the population.  For example, say 15 are left.  5% die.  That means that, on average, 0.75 die per year.

[colockumelk]

Good point WSU.  I always try to stick to the KISS method.  But yes on average 5% of elk older than 18 months die every year from disease, injury, predation, old age etc.  For yearlings that number is 10%. 

The 5% is an average though.  For bulls that average can be more because they live a rougher and tougher life than cows do because of the rut.  Especially in the Colockum.  Since the bull to cow ratio is so low, most of the cows don't get bred the first time around and thus come into estrus again in October, November, December.  This is another reason the Calf to Cow ratio is so low.  Because a calf bred in December wont be born until August.  So the chances of surviving the winter is extremely low.  Sort of a vicious cycle. 

[colockumelk]

Is it really accurate that you have a 5% mortality rate every single year for bulls that make it through hunting season.  Also, your numbers are over simplified.  A 5% mortality rate does not mean that 5% of the original year class would be die, but 5% of the population.  For example, say 15 are left.  5% die.  That means that, on average, 0.75 die per year.

Good point so lets say 1 a year dies of natural causes.  My original numbers don't account for poachers or Indians which are going to easily kill of an additional 2 or 3.  So same thing after 4 years (5.5yrs old) the original population is all dead.  Either way the Colockum herd is majorly screwed. 

[NWTFhunter]

Hunting umtanum since sat. Have seen 9 spikes take and 3 branch bulls. Lots of elk in the unit this year as opposed to 08. Had a 5x @ 100 yrds tues, was nice to watch him. Still in search of a spike though. Then Monday off for late buck.

[spur_ride]

im heading back up tonight. i will let you know what i see on sunday

[C-Money]

Spur, you will probably awake to a snow covered morning! See you Saturday.

[stewcamp]

WSU I ran into the gamie Tuesday night and reported it. So hopefully everybody that sees or hears of poaching will report it. I am not saying the spike bull won't help I am just saying, like we all have, something needs to be done and very soon. It is still a great place to hunt but for how long? Yes ther has been alot of poachers caught this year but why does it happen so much? Do these people not care? I am just frusterated with how elk hunting up there has progressed. I want to take my daughters hunting when they are old enough but I don't want them to know how spoiled the experience has become let alone how many people are up there taking animals illegally. Colockumelk when is the next general meeting over there in Ellensburg? Let me know of anything coming up. And good luck to anybody going back up there this weekend they are still in there! Next year stop by stewcamp for some beer and stew!

[fishm@n]

Saw alot of elk all week. No shooters. Only saw two spikes and they were not legal. The Colockum unit is getting wiped out. In the next few years there will be no good hunting left in the Naneum. 10 bulls were taken on top of Naneum canyon opening morning and one guy told me it was like a slaughterfest. Everybody shooting all at once together ? Is this real hunting. My buddy and I were taken a drive mid-day up by the game reserve and saw guys actually walking the fence line on the reserve waiting for elk to come out of there. This is pathetic! Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?

We've gotten off topic, but this topic needs more discussion..

This type of crap is why I gave up rifle hunting in this state and went back to archery. I've yet to be successful here with a bow but the quality of the season and lack of hunters is MUCH better.

That said, how does the state wrangle in and eliminate the bad hunters we all see? Do we test everyone regardless of age and deny licenses to those who don't pass? What kind of test.. ethics, animal identification, can they read english? I think a lot of them are the urban knuckleheads over here on the wet side that have no business being in the field hunting. JMHO