stupid!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

"And, before the archery guys get on my case, I realize there are some very dedicated archery folks out there who are diligent about the sport.  I am not talking about you;  but, the fact remains that hundreds if not thousands of deer are "stuck" during archery season and never found.  So, while harvest levels appear to be low, that is not really the full story.



And the funny thing is, the first couple days of every late archery season I find several dead partially eaten bucks that were wounded by rifle hunters and not recovered.  Every single season...several bucks.  I've never came across a dead buck with an arrow in him in Washington state.  BTW I'm one of the "dedicated archery folks"  and in my opinion there is a much higher percentage of rifle hunters who are weekend warriors.   
 
  Logged 
 

 
 
We can all point fingers, but statistically it is the modern weapon users that leave the most wounded/unrecovered game just by sheer numbers of hunters out there.
I have found game both early and late, it is a sad fact of life that a small percentage of hunters out there have no business shooting at animals with any weapon until they spend more time at the range (or set down their beer)

[WVT]

I'm with EastWaViking on this, I think people forget how difficult archery is. You need an advantage the other weapons don't have, like the early season when the bucks are in bach. groups and not as spooky. Elk early are rutting and bugling, how many elk would be killed with a bow if you stopped us from hunting the rut? These bucks go nocturnal and the rut gives us a chance at success. Taking this time away from archers in my opinion is them taking the path of least resistence.

[Broken Arrow]

I 2nd what Eastwing says...I archery hunt deer, and also have taken my 12 year old son out durring modern rifle for the last two years. One of those two is an absolute embarresment to me as a hunter. He will soon be archery hunting!

[EastWaViking]

They can't just cut  another two days off of the rifle season without rebelion from the rifle hunters. So the best they can do is move it around to try to avoid the rut.
Brandon

Why not?  They did it to the archers.  Just start late rifle a couple days earlier.   

I guess I should quite griping and go to the meetings next year.   

[Axle]

It was done exactly for the reason you said.  TOO MANY DEER WERE BEING KILLED DURING THAT TIME

OK, so we need to buy a tag to harvest a deer but the department doesn't want us to actually 'shoot' the deer. Sounds like a money scheme to me.

One year I got to help a buddy in the green river watershed on his elk hunt. Every elk shot at had to be reported. This was a rifle hunt. On the first day, there were 6 elk shot and taken and there were 6 elk shot and not recovered. We tried to find one of the wounded elk by tracking the blood trail because the hunter didn't follow up. I thought that was really bad success rates for a rifle but as stated by others - there are plenty of guys that don't belong in the woods.

I hunt both rifle and archery and have a great passion for both. The archers seems to recover more animals from my experience and it isn't only the watershed hunt I'm taking into account. I too have seen many rifle kills not recovered and only one elk not recovered from an arrow.

A sad example I witnessed one year - I was hunting the Tanum and walking up the hill. Shooting started on the other side. I started counting after hearing about 12 to 15 shots. I then counted 36 more shots. I went up over the hill to see what was going on. I thought the Chinese had invaded us. Anyway, there was this huge 4 point mulie and he was walking up the other side about 250 yards from me. I would have shot it but it would have been tagged by 6 others before I could get to it. After all the shooting, all those who shot at it went the other way after the buck crested the hill and left the area. I went to see if it had been wounded but found no blood. I was amazed that not one guy went to see if he hit it! Some of those guys had young hunters with them. Bad example!

It certainly isn't the method (rifle vs bow). It is the hunter and the hunters ethics. It just seems the archers have a bit more pasion and energy. Plus, they don't lob bullets across canyons and drive away when the animal doesn't fall over immediately.

I have a pasion for responsibility by followup regardless of method (as most of us do). Sadly, some hunters do not.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Unfortunately we (Archers) will never have the clout that modern firearm users have ($$$$$$) We can complain all we want but it will ALLWAYS come down to who is paying our representatives.
The best option we have is to join local clubs and state organizations (Washington Bowhunters, Traditional Bowhunters of Washington etc.) and organize.
Maybe even increase dues and lease/buy property and manage it like the private timber companies (or ranches) that the wdfw seems to cater to nowadays.

Once upon a time there were some great men like Fred Bear, Glenn St.Charles, Will Compton, Roy Case, and others too numerous to list that fought for our right to hunt with a bow.
We need someone with the leadership and charisma to stand up for our sport now..........    

[duckmen1]

i think they need to straighten the seasons back out in western washington but i also think they need to make it two point minimum
this would make much better quality deer and i think deer numbers will go up
but the do need to fix the screw up on cougars
2 point min=better deer= more meat in the freezer

[EastWaViking]

heck, I'd be happy with three point minimum on the east side.  Just give me those late buck days back!

[Dipsnort]

It was done exactly for the reason you said.  TOO MANY DEER WERE BEING KILLED DURING THAT TIME

OK, so we need to buy a tag to harvest a deer but the department doesn't want us to actually 'shoot' the deer. Sounds like a money scheme to me.

Are you just now figuring that out?

[luvtohnt]

They can't just cut  another two days off of the rifle season without rebelion from the rifle hunters. So the best they can do is move it around to try to avoid the rut.
Brandon

Why not?  They did it to the archers.  Just start late rifle a couple days earlier.   

I guess I should quite griping and go to the meetings next year.   

Again the archers took it in the shorts because the rifle hunters wanted a rut tag for rifle elk so we have to clear the woods for the rifle hunters in September. The rifle hunters have such a large voice because there are so many of them. So if the cut more days there would be enough opposition that nothing could be accomplished. Now for the moving of the dates, if you were to move it a couple days earlier again you would meet too much opposition aas that would make it open on a Wednesday rather than a Saturday. I personally don't think the day of the week should be any factor as to setting season dates but again the majority likes it that way so what can we do?

Brandon

[GEARHEAD]

Frankly i agree with the time off, those rut hunts are way too long. the late rifle season is a joke, damn near two weeks.  the late rifle should be four days just like over hear. i hunt the palouse area and those bucks are being dropped left and right,they are just to stupid and vulnerable, and the lazy weakminded trespassing trash shoot the hell out of them in the late season. want bigger bucks, want better heards, shorten the season limit the harvest of mature bucks. sorry for the rant, road hunters and trespassers got me real good this year.

[Sneaky]

Frankly i agree with the time off, those rut hunts are way too long. the late rifle season is a joke, damn near two weeks.  the late rifle should be four days just like over hear. i hunt the palouse area and those bucks are being dropped left and right,they are just to stupid and vulnerable, and the lazy weakminded trespassing trash shoot the hell out of them in the late season. want bigger bucks, want better heards, shorten the season limit the harvest of mature bucks. sorry for the rant, road hunters and trespassers got me real good this year.

Not every modern hunter who hunts the late whitetail hunt is "lazy weakminded trespassing trash". I know that those people are out there but it's not fair to punish people who get out and hunt for those who choose to act irresponsibly. Maybe the rut in the palouse happens at a different time than in 124 where i rifle hunt, but I can tell you that all but the last 3 or 4 days IF you're lucky do you see any rutting activity. November 6-15 is usually pretty much a joke, especially if there is no weather. I have seen some DANDY whitetail bucks out on public ground this year and can tell you that the only thing wrong with the herd is the out of whack buck to doe ratios. People this year have talked about how there are way fewer whitetails in the northeast and having spent archery muzzleloader and early modern seasons hunting that area this year I have seen the same numbers of deer as I always have and passed on 7 bucks so far this season. I agree with Eastwaviking, it doesn't make any sense to take away from the archers any more than they already have this year.

[GEARHEAD]

i'm sorry, if i wan't clear, i was speaking to those who trespass, shoot from roads and road hunt, those that shoot deer in fields that are not their own and have no authorization from the land owner or controler to be there or shoot there. if the deer fails to drop these @$$holes usually just speed off. these are the lazy, trespassing, weak/meak minded people i am speaking of. where i hunt for every hunter involved in fair chase, there are maybe 3-4 that are defined in the above.
i'm sorry to muddy the water, this is an archery question and discussion.

[muleyguy]

In 1997, there were 14,018 Archery Hunters in this state and 113,703 rifle hunters

In 2008, there were 21,000 archery Hunters in this state and 107,259 rifle hunters

statistically, this represents an increase in archery hunters of 50%;  and a drop in rifle hunters of 9%.

why do you suppose this is? 

modern firearms hunters have had almost all mule deer seasons shortened to a 9 day general season starting in mid-october, and even the white tail modern firearm seasons have been significantly curtailed from what they had been from 10 yrs ago.

by contrast, archery hunters, enjoy seasons that range from 18 days of general season (early and late) to 34 days of general season;  with at least 8 days of general season occurring in mid November.

Archery seasons have not been reduced anywhere near modern firearm seasons have over the last 10 yrs;  and your (archery) numbers are increasing DRAMATICALLY;  are you guys really arguing that us big, bad modern firearm hunters are walking all over the poor archery hunters???  Give me a break......

what is happening is that as modern firearm seasons have been reduced dramatically, you are getting a "shift" in the hunter populations from rifle hunters to archery hunters, that is a fact. Notice how total hunter numbers from 1997 to 2008 are almost unchanged.  The reason you are getting this is because almost all archery seasons have significant hunting opportunities during the rut.  Whereas, general rifle hunts in mid-october result in lower numbers of deer being seen, fewer bucks, and very few mature bucks being seen.

Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that in a very short time frame, you have had significant numbers of  new archery hunters entering the sport;  are they doing it because they love the sport and are dedicated to it?  or, are they doing it because the deer hunting opportunities are so poor with the low numbers of deer and dramatically shortened  seasons in modern firearms???   I think reasonable people can figure that one out........

what is actually happening is that the WDFW is trying to "fix" the deer herds with the the modern firearm hunters, and that makes sense because modern firearm hunters represent the bulk of the hunters;  BUT, without corresponding restrictions in archery seasons, especially the late ones, all it is doing is SHIFTING modern firearm hunters to archery.  This has the perverse effect of actually increasing the stress on these animals during the rut.  And, since there are fewer units open in late archery then modern firearm, these "new" archers get concentrated in the open archery units.

so, what you have is a fast increasing archery hunter population;  rut hunts that have been essentially left alone in length for the most part;  and, many more, less qualified, archery hunters in the field......draw your own conclusions......

this trend will continue unabated in this state until either one of two things happen:

1.  Deer herds recover strongly, allowing more liberal rifle seasons;  this will draw archery hunters back to rifle hunting because these new "converts" are really not archery hunters at heart.

2.  The WDFW dramatically limits the late archery seasons.

Number 1 is not going to happen;  Number 2 will, eventually........because in another 10 yrs you are looking at another 10,000 archery hunters entering the equation.....better enjoy it while you can........

[Axle]

modern firearms hunters have had almost all mule deer seasons shortened to a 9 day general season starting in mid-october

True, but you need to add the 11 day high buck hunt in there too. It gets a high percentage of success and bucks up high by rifle hunters. I hunt deer with a rifle too but don't agree with all the season dates. I used to hunt deer with a bow, but with all the limits, I'm better off using a rifle and hunting better season dates.

My success with a rifle has been much better than with a bow, but my heart goes out for a more challenge - archery!