Margaret/Toutle Bull Tags

[funkster]

Ok,maybe you all can clear something up for me. I called the wdfw and ask them a few questions last year to make sure I understood how it works,here is what I was told. They started the draw system in 1996 so the max points you could have without turning in a poacher or getting a point for a wdfw mess up is 13. I know that all of you didn't turn in a poacher, so my question is how are some of you saying "I have put in for 15-20 years? Either I was told the wrong info from wdfw(wouldn't suprise me) or maybe it just feels like you have been putting in for 50 years.

I think the system is pretty good. You could increase your odds of drawing if the wdfw made the applicant only choose 1 or 2 hunt choices instead of 4. I wouldn't mind if you could buy points either. Put a two point limit per year and make a point $50,this could only help the wdfw with added money they desperately need,best of both worlds

BTW, I have 5 points.

[bobcat]

The special permit hunts were still there before the point system began in 1996. That's how people have been applying for 20 years. I know I've been applying for at least 20 years for special permit hunts. But I've been drawn a few times.

As far as odds of drawing being increased by decreasing the number of choices, as I said previously, I think it would increase odds for some permits but decrease odds for others. Now take just the Margaret and Toutle bull elk permits. A lot of people probably only apply for those two every year. If we only had two choices instead of four, they would still be applying for the same two choices. So maybe nothing would change? If only one choice was available, I could see many people choosing the Toutle because it has so many more permits available than the Margaret. So possibly Margaret WOULD become easier to draw, but then the Toutle might also become more difficult to draw. But it's hard to say. Too many variables.

[funkster]

I just think its funny when people say they have 18 points, My buddy got 2 extra points from the wdfw for messing up his draw two years ago. I guess they could have 18 points, but highly unlikely!.

What do you think if they didn't make you choose east or west side before the drawing? That might fall into the same problem but it might spread out the applicants a little more.

[Dipsnort]

I wouldn't mind if you could buy points either. Put a two point limit per year and make a point $50,this could only help the wdfw with added money they desperately need,best of both worlds

Please tell me you didn't say that!  I'm actually quite surprised they haven't come up with this scheme during one of their "how do we screw the hunting public out of additional cash without actually providing additional hunting opportunity?" brainstorming sessions.  And the additional revenue would go to the general fund, NOT the WDFW.  You do know that, right?

[WSU]

-With how the system is now the lower points guys or everybody for that matter has a chance at the best tags but chances are you still will never draw the tag, With a percentage of tags to the guys at the top at least you know you will for sure draw a tag in your lifetime. But again im sure everybody opposed doesnt have 14pts, but even if it was 50% of tags everybody would still have a chance! At least change something cause what we have now sucks

I assume you would want something like Oregon has, where the people with the highest number of points putting in for a hunt are guaranteed to draw.  That way, you can figure out when you will be drawn, and eventually are guaranteed to draw (in theory).  Is this correct?  The main problem I see is that most people will have zero chance at drawing at all.  Younger people get screwed.  The fact that someone didn't start putting in for tags 15 years ago will preclude them from ever having a chance at drawing one of the premier tags since there will always be someone in front of them with more points.  It seems to be better for the younger generation to have some sort of chance at drawing these tags.  I know that when I have kids, I would not want their chance to draw a big bull tag to be zero simply because they were born later than the majority of people putting in for tags.

[Alan K]

The main problem I see is that most people will have zero chance at drawing at all.  Younger people get screwed.  The fact that someone didn't start putting in for tags 15 years ago will preclude them from ever having a chance at drawing one of the premier tags since there will always be someone in front of them with more points.  It seems to be better for the younger generation to have some sort of chance at drawing these tags.  I know that when I have kids, I would not want their chance to draw a big bull tag to be zero simply because they were born later than the majority of people putting in for tags.

Exactly.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

WSU hit the nail on the head. The oregon draw and colorado draw only rewards the older generation. If you wern't there from the onset you are screwed. I think about the kids and at least they have a chance to draw.
I get frustrated every year with the next round of unsuccessfuls but it is not all about me, someday i will draw...

[julzzz]

I put in for the Margret bull permit for 11 years, and finally drew it this year.  This permit is nothing like it used to be. I listened to the Weyco hotline every day the week before and it said the tree farm was closed to all access.  So we went in on opening day, the only gates that were open to access was the 2502 and th 2900 per the hotline for this weekend.  Come to find out from other Margret tag holders they had been in there all week >:(before opening weekend scouting). I was mad as he$$. Every gate on the Winston side of the green was open, the 2500, and the 3100 gate up the highway was open. did not see a single law inforcement officer the whole time we were in there. We did see alot of vehicles and for only 18 permits,where did they come from? sightseeing, taking pictures? This I thought should be a hunt of a lifetime, and where were all the volunteers they were seeking so much?  To my understanding there was only going to be 2 gates open, the 2502 and the 2900 and I thought both gates were to be monitored.  I did have a good time hunting with some really good friends and harvested a good bull and worked my a$$ off for him.  You can see my bull picts under (My Margret bull)

[julzzz]

Still waiting for a picture of your Margret bull KC66 

[funkster]

I wouldn't mind if you could buy points either. Put a two point limit per year and make a point $50,this could only help the wdfw with added money they desperately need,best of both worlds

Please tell me you didn't say that!  I'm actually quite surprised they haven't come up with this scheme during one of their "how do we screw the hunting public out of additional cash without actually providing additional hunting opportunity?" brainstorming sessions.  And the additional revenue would go to the general fund, NOT the WDFW.  You do know that, right?

Yes I do know that. Even if the money went into the general fund it would get spread out and funneled back into fish and wildlife. See this is the problem,no one wants to support what we all enjoy. Then bitch about how the wdfw is so messed up.They don't have the funds or the man power to get the job done.

That's why simple things like only choosing 1 hunt choice,not choosing east or west side before special permits are drawn and being able to purchase points could only make the draw system better 

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

If they want to address the budget issue they need to look within. Why are there more people working in offices than in the field???

[elksnout]

WDFW, I do not know what you are talking about with Oregon only rewarding older hunters. My son and myself draw a decent buck tags every third year over there as partners. I do not understand that statement. And what's wrong with us older guys getting those tags ?? Do the math, we do not have all that many years left as they do. We have paid our dues as they should and will. My boy is the best hunting partner I've ever been in the field with and I started him hunting when he was 10 years old. And if we are together he still gets first shot. And when the day arrives we are hunting on those bull permits he'll still get first crack. That's how it's supposed to be.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Elksnout i was refering to elk, and no age doesn't mean you are owed anything... And the max point states only reward the older hunters. I have a 10 year old and would love to see him have the opportunities i have had, hopefully he will love the sport as much as i do. But i will teach him as he goes that it is not all about him, like there is so much of in the sport. ME ME ME... give me a tag i deserve it more than someone else... NOpe not going to fly. If i pay my 5 bucks like you i have the same shot at drawing a tag as you. That is the way it should be. The max point draws were made up by some old guy that wanted to draw that premier tag one more time and screwed the younger generation of hunters. If my son started puting in for wenaha (oregon) right now at 10 he would never draw it and would have wasted thousands in the mean time. Deer is different, they are draw only on the east side, so if yopu don't draw you don't hunt simple as that. trying to compare apples to oranges in my opinion...

[WSU]

WDFW, I do not know what you are talking about with Oregon only rewarding older hunters. My son and myself draw a decent buck tags every third year over there as partners. I do not understand that statement. And what's wrong with us older guys getting those tags ?? Do the math, we do not have all that many years left as they do. We have paid our dues as they should and will. My boy is the best hunting partner I've ever been in the field with and I started him hunting when he was 10 years old. And if we are together he still gets first shot. And when the day arrives we are hunting on those bull permits he'll still get first crack. That's how it's supposed to be.

The difference isn't going to be obvious in tags that you can draw every 3 years.  You would draw those tags without the max points system.  The difference is the long shot tags, such as Wenaha bull tags.  If your son started putting in now, he would never draw.  No chance.  WDFW and I differ in that we don't think this is right.  The fact that you are older shouldn't preclude the younger generation from having any chance at going on the most premier hunts.  You think the younger generation should be precluded from ever drawing the tag so that you can draw the tag, while WDFW and I don't. 

[andrew_12gauge]

this whole thread is exactly why i love our system here in idaho, everybody has the exact same chance every year doesnt matter how many years youve applied, i am against all point systems