Possible changes for Montana....

[huntnphool]

I have a pretty good idea how the ranchers I lease from will vote as will many other ranchers and landowners who's income is helped by hunting leases.

 The absence of guaranteed outfitter tags doesn't prevent you from leasing the same properties. It also doesn't prevent the land owner from leasing his land to you or anyone else.

[bearpaw]

Do you want to give up the Block Management program?

That is the most successful program at opening the most private lands to public hunting of any state in the country.

I have to ask what is so bad about the status quo? The guys who want a cheap license get one every 1 to 3 years, the guys who want to pay for BM get to hunt when they want to go, and everyone gets access to millions of acres of private land that otherwise would probably not be open to hunt.  

[huntnphool]

Do you want to give up the Block Management program?

Why would we have to give up the BMP?

[Special T]

I think the choice is more important than anything else.. I've been on a guided hunt in Montana and loved it! I'd also like to go back and go out on my own one time.... Probably wouldn't go on a Guided hunt unless i could plan it out a long time ahead... Time = money for most people So whats wrong with the choice? So BP if i hear you right they take away the outfitter tags the Block management goes away? or if they go away the NR fee increase covers it?

[bearpaw]

Well this country is in the mode for wanting "change" as that is what is going to make everything better.

As far as I can see this initiative will upset a balance that actually works quite well.

For you guys who want to pay $200 more so you have a better chance of getting a license, I see your odds of drawing a license increasing by maybe 1/10th. The outfitter licenses are only a small portion of total non-resident licenses, it won't make a huge difference, and everyone who used to buy the Outfitter License will now be competing for the draw licenses.    

T....I am sure they have the fee increase so they don't lose the BM program or the initiative would never have any chance to pass....will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

The current program actually works quite well thats why I hate to see changes....but obviously it will be determined by the people.

[bearpaw]

Do you want to give up the Block Management program?

Why would we have to give up the BMP?

phool, in case you missed my earlier post, the Outfitter Licenses fund Block Management.

[bearpaw]

I have a pretty good idea how the ranchers I lease from will vote as will many other ranchers and landowners who's income is helped by hunting leases.

 The absence of guaranteed outfitter tags doesn't prevent you from leasing the same properties. It also doesn't prevent the land owner from leasing his land to you or anyone else.

You are correct, it doesn't prevent me or anyone else from leasing. However, most years I have at least 6 to 10 hunters who do buy the Outfitter License. That stability allows me to go ahead and lease property.

I guess I like seeing the option of cheap draw licenses or more expensive gauranteed licenses. The initiative takes away both.....

[huntnphool]

Do you want to give up the Block Management program?

phool, in case you missed my earlier post, the Outfitter Licenses fund Block Management.

 I didnt miss it. According to the numbers in the proposed initiative there would be a substantial increase in the revenue raised, why would anything be cut except the guaranteed tags?

[bobcat]

After reading Bearpaw's posts I would have to say I'd be in opposition to this initiative. Not that it matters since I don't live there...

But I just think $527 is way too high for a deer tag. I guess if people are willing to pay it, then it's not too high. But I wouldn't pay that much.

As Bearpaw said, Montana's system is working well as it is, why change it. It's not broke, no need to fix it.

[huntnphool]

most years I have at least 6 to 10 hunters who do buy the Outfitter License. That stability allows me to go ahead and lease property.

BP, you are of the mind set that the loss of guaranteed tags equates to a drop in clientele? I would think it would be just the opposite. At a decrease of almost half the $ for the tag, wouldn't you potentially have more people considering going with a guide? Just to keep it simple, if for a total package to hunt with you they were originally looking at $2500, now they are looking at a total of $1900. I would think you would be picking up a couple more per year.

[bearpaw]

most years I have at least 6 to 10 hunters who do buy the Outfitter License. That stability allows me to go ahead and lease property.

BP, you are of the mind set that the loss of guaranteed tags equates to a drop in clientele? I would think it would be just the opposite. At a decrease of almost half the $ for the tag, wouldn't you potentially have more people considering going with a guide? Just to keep it simple, if for a total package to hunt with you they were originally looking at $2500, now they are looking at a total of $1900. I would think you would be picking up a couple more per year.

Yes you are correct, I am of that mindset:
Let me explain a little more clearly:

My hunters looking for the most affordable hunt apply for $343 deer licenses.
My hunters who don't care what it costs but want to hunt this year pay $1100 for deer licenses.

Take away the cheaper license and take away the guaranteed license, and I beleive my business will drop because I lose the best options of the two worlds.

Unlike many of you more experienced hunters on this forum, a guy from western Washington who has never hunted in Montana or a guy from South Carolina who has never hunted mule deer often want a guide for their Montana hunting trip. Please remember, those guys have just as much right to hunt MT as you do. Also please realize there are poor hunters and there are wealthier people who are hunters. The current program allows a wider variety of all those hunters the option to afford that hunt or to experience that MT hunt the same year they want to go.

[huntnphool]

The current program allows a wider variety of all those hunters the option to afford that hunt or to experience that MT hunt the same year they want to go.

But for someone that wants to go with you next year, the total cost would be cheaper with the initiative passing than it is now.

[Bigshooter]

The current program allows a wider variety of all those hunters the option to afford that hunt or to experience that MT hunt the same year they want to go.

But for someone that wants to go with you next year, the total cost would be cheaper with the initiative passing than it is now.

No it would be more expensive for some and cheaper for others.

[bearpaw]

If the Initiative passes no one will know for sure they can hunt next year with me since the Outfitter Licenses will be history.

AND

If the Initiative passes the guys that would have paid $343 for a chance at the draw license will have to pay $527 for the draw license and may choose not to apply or to go where licenses are cheaper.

Thus the best of both worlds is gone....I could lose clients from both groups of hunters as might other outfitters.

Two things are for sure, the least expensive option is gone, and the guaranteed option is gone.

[bearpaw]

The whole program with the Outfitter License fees paying for the Block Management program is a win/win/win/win for the poor hunter, the wealthy hunter, all hunters wanting access to private land, the outfitting industry, and the outfitted hunter.

With the initiative, the only real winners I see are the people who hate outfitters and don't care what it takes to get in a poke at the outfitting industry. Honestly, the average nonresident hunter will have to pay almost $200 more to increase their odds of drawing by a very small percentage. Just doesn't make any sense to me.