Dog Fight Question

[Rowdy]

Here's the scenario:
At the local school yard last night exercising my dog (off leash).  My dog has very little interest in other dogs and is usually focused on me or exploring the area, always within sight and earshot.  I was throwing a ball for my dog who after catching the ball off the bounce he made a big loop probably a 100 yards from me when another dog twice his size comes bolting from a nearby trail straight to my pup.  I yell my dogs name followed by a very loud "HERE".  My dog sees the other dog, hears me, and cautiously starts back towards me with the other dog in tow.  The other dog catches up to him about 30 yards from me and my dog turns to face him.  At this point they are posturing, both with tails up and standing their ground.

At this point I think I may have made a mistake.  I called my dog to me, he turned to come to me and the other dog jumped him (full throttle).  My dog is only 50lbs, the other dog was some sort of sheppard mix much bigger than my dog.  I start to run towards them, when I get to them my dog had completely turned the table and was laying into this dog.  I grabbed my dog by the collar pulled him off and spun around to set him down so I would be in the middle of the two.  The other dog immediately starts back at him and I without even thinking kicked the dog hard.  It squeeled and started running towards it's owner, a lady on her cell phone that to this point I have not seen or heard.

I start looking my dog over but there is very little light but he seems ok so I leash him and start to head for the truck.  Well, her she comes.  Screaming and yelling that her dog is bleeding, I should be arrested for kicking her dog, my dog was off leash, and a whole lot of other things.  I assumed there was going to be no reasoning with this person so I continued on my way to the truck.  She followed saying she was calling the police and/or her husband.  I loaded up the dog and got in my rig.  She continued to scream at me through the driver side window at one point grabbing her mace.  I was and am still unsure of how I should of responded to this but I left.

The one thing I think I should of done differently was calling my dog to me when they were posturing.  I think my dog turning to come to me triggered the other dog to attack.  Not sure but it was a very unpleasant experience and I certainly hope there isn't more to follow.


??,
Jake

[3dsheetmetal]

If the dog came after yours I think I would have stomped it's guts into the ground.And as far as walking away from the screaming bitch that was probably a good idea.Can't tolerate ignorant people.

[jackelope]

judging that you are from seattle--assuming there's a leash law whereever you were both of you were breaking the law if both dogs were off leash.
that said...*censored* happens like that all the time at the dog park at marymore. odds are you didn't make the dog bleed by kicking it. your dog probably laid into him a little and drew blood. sounds like the dog(s) got what was coming to them.

2 dogs got in a fight...such is life.

[WDFW-SUX]

My wife had a dog that was a brawler.. loved to pick on pit bulls man Im glad that dog is dead.

[jackelope]

i guess if the lady said she was calling the cops i would have put my dog in the truck and hung around. not sure if there's a law against leaving the scene or something along those lines.

[carpsniperg2]

you did what i would have. good thing by walking away it sounds like you would have ot maced the only thing for future thought is buy some mace for that situation. because if she had got the cops there it could have gone either way and it would be your word aginst hers and she sounded a bit crazy

[coop2424]

I truthfully do not think you did anything wrong I have been in the exact same situation as that.  The problem that I see if the authorities get involved is you both had your dogs off your leash so they will put the blame on both pet owners.  It sounds like you were more responsible than the other owner since she was no where near her dog and was on the phone while walking it with no leash.  You were just playing with your dog.  I don't think I would of had the control you did.  I would of probably yelled at her and asked why she let her dog come towards you and your dog in the first place with no leash.  

[DOUBLELUNG]

Best way to break up a dog attack on another dog is to grab the aggressor by both back legs and hoist its back end off the ground.  That usually takes all the fight out of them, if not, roll it onto its side, keeping the back end off the ground, and use a foot to come in from the top and pin its neck to the ground.  Once physically dominated, it is very unusual for a dog to attack, even if you completely release it.  

Given that the lady was hysterical, and physically threatened you by pulling out her mace, you made the right call in leaving.  Some would say you should call the police, but that is your call.  You didn't commit a crime, except maybe the leash law thing.  However, if your dog bites a person, regardless of circumstances you should report it to protect yourself and minimize criminal liability.

[Special T]

I've never seen a 2 dogs getting into it that couldn't be stopped by a swift kick to the ribs! (Their Dog)  Unless several stitches are necessary  its a scuffle NOT a dog fight... That said I think you did the right thing... The fact that you dog listened to you is a good thing... I could call my chess out a a scuffle, because he knew if he didn't come I'd be the one kicking him instead of the other dog... as for the mace, I be live  RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities does not specifically state mace is banned from  the grounds, but since it was a woman it think it was best that you left. I think its better for you to confront / mess up someone else dog when yours is listening obediently... You are a responsible owner they can't controll theirs!

[Rowdy]

Thanks for the input from everyone.  A side note, my dog is not a fighter but he does have a record of 3 an 0.  All instances were self defense or him getting irritated from getting mounted.  The other instances happened at the dog park and that is why those places are a last resort for me.  My pup is a good dog and extremely obedient.  After I picked him off the other dog by his collar he had his tail tucked and ears down for the rest of the night.  He thought I was upset with him because he knows I don't tolerate any aggression, growling, hackles up, etc...  I'm the boss and I'll do the growling but unfortunately in this instance I wasn't close enough to intervene before it went down.

Lesson learned and I was definitly in an area where he should have been on a leash but neither dog was.  I prefer to take my chances with the leash law and would even be willing to except a ticket with the alternative being the dog park.

Just another reason I need to move east, as soon as I figure out a way to make a living over there.

Thanks,
Jake

[tbotts]

I think you did the right thing. 

[Houndhunter]

i woulda just left too, i take my hound running with me and had 2 dogs come at us and start coming at her aggressively once i yelled they backed off but i woulda beat the *censored* out them if they stayed. but i also wont think twice bout doin the same to my dog if shes in the wrong, its a pain in the ass when they start fighting over a dead animal . i dont think much coulda happened to you sense both your dogs were off the leash, but people can pull some pretty shady stuf when it comes to pets

[dontgetcrabs]

I also agree you did the right thing. Is that your pup in your avatar pic? What line of work are you in?

[TEX-X]

dang michael vick.... 3 and 0?  i know my shorthair is a scrapper as well....  stupid people piss me off....    i was out training and had a dog get aggressive towards me... i mean puffed up and started growling... I grabbed a stick and was about to crack this mutt on the head when my dog came out of nowhere and stepped in between me and the other dog....  and he didn't look to happy... i had never heard him growl like that...  as soon as the other mutt started backing down my GSP turned to me and his tail started wagging... like nothing had even happened....  you did the right thing...  i wish i could say that i would've done the same... but i have a short fuse....  and i think i would've let it get the best of me....

[Joe_Hunter]

You did the right thing by leaving...Nothing good would have come from that encounter. It probably would have ended up with both parties getting a citation.
 I remember one time I came across two dogs fighting...apparently a Rottweiler jumped a fence and had a collie by the muzzle and wouldn't let go. You could hear the bones crunching and the canines were buried to the gumline in this collies face, apparently the owner of the collie let the two dogs sniff noses and it got out of hand ( ya think ) The owner was freaking and the other dog was having his way with this collie.
I tried to pull the dogs apart and we eventually did but man was it ugly. All to often trying to separate fighting dogs the one that gets it the worst is the poor guy doing the separating.
To the credit of the collie owner she realized that she caused the incident and that was the end of it.

[piled-up]

Do you wish you kicked her and not the dog ... No  just kidding ,leaving was best I think.

[Ironhead]

Rowdy,
You did the right thing in leaving, nothing you would have said was gonna change the enraged persons mind.(Dog fight rule #1)  The agressor always gets the boot (Even if it's your own dog). You have to be careful with 2 posturing dogs. If you call your dog off, when he turns from being squared up with the other dog he is vulnerable. The other dog will usually see this as their chance and attack. Never any fun trying to break up a dog fight. Somebody always gets hurt and it is usually the human.

[sisu]

Rowdy,
You did the right thing in leaving, nothing you would have said was gonna change the enraged persons mind.(Dog fight rule #1)  The aggressor always gets the boot (Even if it's your own dog). You have to be careful with 2 posturing dogs. If you call your dog off, when he turns from being squared up with the other dog he is vulnerable. The other dog will usually see this as their chance and attack. Never any fun trying to break up a dog fight. Somebody always gets hurt and it is usually the human.

I agree completely. I have always owned dogs that don't back down from a fight. I wish they would but they don't. My daughter says it is because they take after me! What ever that means...

I'd of driven away too and if I got visited my the police I'd of explained that the lady was going postal and figured the best thing to do was leave.

[benbo30]

i would have done the same , especially since the other dog attacked first , she should have been more responsible of her dog

[Ray]

I might not have kicked theother dog. But I am not sure I might just have.I wasn't there so I will not say if that was or was not the right thing to do. When you decided to leave after she became out of control I think you did right. If someone thinks that they should mace someone else over a dog fight like described - then they are a little nutty. It's amazing to think if she had been mostly polite you might have stayed around instead. Of course it is obvious she thinks her dog is above the leash laws which probably were in place for the area. Or that her dog was somehow in the right as opposed to your dog or something. She's a nut and possibly dumb.

[Rowdy]

I also agree you did the right thing. Is that your pup in your avatar pic? What line of work are you in?

That's him.  I work for a Marine Electronics Co.

Jake

[dontgetcrabs]

I also agree you did the right thing. Is that your pup in your avatar pic? What line of work are you in?

That's him.  I work for a Marine Electronics Co.

Jake

Might be a little tricking finding that kind of work over here.    That's a nice looking dog.

[Rowdy]

Tell me about it, I'm trapped     It's actually an office job, Purchasing Mgr, but I've been here for eleven years so this is the only industry I know      Thanks for the compliment on the pup, he's turning out to be a pretty good bird dog.

Jake

[TEX-X]

hey rowdy you can always enlist in the army if you want to learn a new trade... 

[h2ofowlr]

If another dog would have attacked my dog, I probably would have put the other dog down.  My lab is not a scrapper, but I am sure he would stand his ground.  If another dog charges mine to attack, it has another thing coming.

[Sneaky]

I encounter the same issues all the time walking my labs in renton. People can be very ignorant, I leash my dogs unless there's not anyone else walking their dogs and have never had an issue when my dogs were off the leash. However, I have had several encounters with people who unleash their dogs.

Once I was leaving my driveway when I had my chesapeake and a large rotweiler came trotting over from the neighbors hours, snapping and growling at my dog. I tried to fend the dog off by yelling at it to no avail. I wasn't going to let my duck dog get hurt, so when the dog came after him I kicked the rotweiler in the side as hard as I could. She went limping back to her owner who came out screaming telling me how the dog was pregnant. Then her husband came over that afternoon and told my father and "if you kick my dog, I'll break your leg".... Dad didn't exactly take kindly to that kind of talk and assured the neighbor that he'd either remove himself from the property or find himself on the business end of a winchester 97.

An ugly situation that could've been easily avoided.

[Small_Savage]

I don't think you could have done anything differently.  Dogs are dogs, even the well trained ones aren't going to let themselves get their a$$es handed to them and will do what it takes to defend themselves. 

As for leaving the scene of the doggie mutual combat... there isn't an RCW for that, that I am aware of! 

I'd have been disappointed that she hadn't maced me though, she'd be getting a ride in the po-lice car for doing that to you in that situation.  Kudos for leaving her there and keeping it from escalating even more.  I highly doubt it'll go any farther.

[huntncoug]

It must be something in the water this year, I would have done the same thing you did and have.  Several times this year at pheasant release sites my Lab Blue has been attacked by other hunting dogs.  When hunting he has zero interst in other dogs, they seem to find him.  He is a big 110lb all muscle unclipped male.  He has been attacked 4 times out hunting, once by an Akita, and once by a Chow mix(who brings an Akita or Chow hunting IDK).  He is 4-0, luckily the owners of all these dogs saw what happened and actually appologized after their dogs got there butt whipped.

[taylorpz]

Think you did right all the way around.  I've always figured that if a fight starts, I'm on my dog's side.  I've punted a couple dogs over the years (my dog has always been leashed and the others not on those occasions so I felt pretty much like we were in the right).  I also think it was awesome that you didn't escalate with this lady and kept your cool.  Wish more people could be like that.

[hornhunter]

Two dogs lock up I dont hesitate to kick (the other dog) I also have a GSP.  He is the same, he wont start a fight but if another dog wants to go he doesnt mind scrapping.  Ive never seen him start a fight though.  The reason you kick is becsuse if you stick your hand down there your probably gonna get bit, plus you can kick harder than you can pull or punch.  If a fight starts, the faster you get it stopped the less likely either dog will get hurt.  DONT take your dog to a dog park!  That is fight central.  Most the time 3 or 4 dogs get into it at the dog park and that is a mess, plus there are alot of unhealthy dogs at the dog park, exposing your dog to all types of ilness.  You did the right thing man!  I for sure would have had a few choice words for that woman, but, if she pulled out the mace I would have ran like a little girl

[h2ofowlr]

I know it sounds bad to have to kick another dog, I don't do this, but given the situations that is your only option.  Like mentioned once they get that fight or attack mentality going they don't break.  You have a dog with up to 1500 lbs of crushing force in his jaws.  You need to knock the wind out of one of them to get them appart.  Otherwise you may have a dead dog or one requiring a lot of stitches with a large vet bill.

[Clumber]

Dogs rule, people suck.

I have been in similar situations up to the crazy lady screaming suddenly appearing to gather her dog, but no way in hell close to what you dealt with after that point.  I am honestly and without any bs jaw-drop impressed with your restraint.  I have very little confidence that I would have shown even half of the good judgment you did.  Thumbs up, bigtime.

To do differently next time.... hmmmm....  well, I often carry the little "HALT!" mace canisters that are marketed for bike riders and so on, and I have maced dogs that would not back off my dog(s).  I hate doing it - would much rather cause pain to their idiot owner - but I have - right into their muzzle.  They aggression, in my experience, is gone instantly.  You are right, imho, that calling your dog when they were locked-up in posture probably gave the other dog just the motivation to attack, but at the same time I would never fault you for that.  You know your dog will recall, your dog is reliable, and you are not (yet) within grabbing distance.  Seems like a natural reaction to me.

If you wanted, you might have filed a police report of the incident just to be the 1st reporter, or perhaps write an account of the incident and seal a copy in your safe or something just in case. 

One thing to keep in mind is that as you are pulling your own dog out of a fight, even IF your own dog doesn't spin and nail you (not their fault at all - instinct to expect another member of a pack to join in) the dog they are fighting very well may come after YOU.  A dog the size you described ... dangerous dog.  Very much so.  Her dog could very well have ended up shot dead in such a circumstance, and the shooter with a torn open thigh/arm/belly to show for it.

Breaking up a dog fight, the best way I know is to have at least as many humans as dogs, everyone grab a tail and run backwards.  Preferably the tail of your own dog so when/if they spin and nail you, you are only mad at your own dog.  Unfortunately, I have had very few experiences of separating a dog fight by myself that did not result in me bleeding from somewhere.  Catch poles work to a point, that point being you have one dog under control now but the other increases its intensity... lather, rinse, repeat.

They're critters. They're dogs.  I get beside myself annoyed when people blame dogs for being... dogs.

I am not even going to approach the part of her planning to mace you while you are in your own vehicle attempting to retreat....  I would say something offensive, I am sure.  See?  Already you taught me some restraint!

Good job.

~tracy

[Bofire]

 :)You did good man, forget the technicalities of the law, a working cop comes to talk, you tell the truth that you did your best to get out of a bad situation without trouble.
The Cop is gonna LIKE that.
Carl

[Michelle_Nelson]

I think you did the right thing.   Deffinatly showed more restraint than I would have.  I would have had a short fuse.  Especially after what you described.  Sorry, but if a dog comes over and attacks my dog it is getting a good kick in the fist place that presents itself.  I would probably feel bad about it later but I am not about to chance a dog of mine getting tore up.

[Rocky]

I would have done the same thing. Today down at the park my dad & I took our 2 labs down to train. right now were making sure they get down the basic's & slowly moving forward, so the first things we do is walk around the park at heel before doing fetch & other things. As we started out training out a couple are behind us about 5 ft with 2 pure bread put bull's. The female is pregnante & the father was their as well. they started growling & trying to get nears our labs [my yellow is 8 month & my dads chocolate is 10 months] we all pull our dogs away & go our separate ways. my dad is training me how to train my dog so i was watching him on what to do, he told me to go ahead & take a turn, I had snickers jump on the side on the bridge [i was going to use the lead & have her follow me down & turn & do the same thing] before i got scnickers to start walking the woman yells "Dog on the Loose!! Dog on the Loose! grab your puppy's!! pick them up grabd your puppy!' [mind i say ive been chased by a pitbull 2 times at my old house around the ages of 8-10yrs old so im kinda scared of them & dont like them] The male pitbull starts running through the field & up to the bridge he sees me dog & starts trying to attack my dog i got scared so i pushed me dog to the side & threw myself infront of her while smacking the pitbull down. He then went after my dads dog & me dad too did the same thing. the owner finally got his dog. he had no control over his dog, his dog would not listen to him at all or anything all the dog wanted to do was get our labs. As the man was pulling the dog away the woman was yelling. "i'm so sorry he has never done this before. im so sorry. then she started yelling at her dog, I can't believe you did this! your getting uthinized! I didnt wanna do this to you but you made me! how could you do this today out of all days! really!" we all went our differnet ways again & it took me a few minutes for me to walk with snickers because i was so scared & nervous, i coudlnt believe that dog just went after my little girl. i was shaking :/I would have rather had that dog bite me then turn around & hurt my dog shes my best friend & means everything to me i couldnt loose another dog. my dad sid that is the dog would have bitten either dog he would have beatn the *censored* out of it went to his turck & probably used the .45 on it. we lost 3 dogs in 1 yr we we wouldnt be able to handle any more or see then get hurt. The owners of pitbulls I wish they would train them better or something.