45 ACP Loads?

[PA BEN]

BOFIRE is correct. Those are for 45Long Colt. Not 45acp.

Don't open the box. Maybe you can exchange them at the store you purchased from.

I'm new at reloading and didn't read the book before I bought them.

   Um.. Why? You're going to be playing with explosives. READ! Read first, read again. Highlight text that you need to reference.



-Steve

I didn't open the box and Wal-mart won't take them back. BTW, I bought the box at Wal-mart. 45 cal. Before I loaded them I read the book for a load. NO LOAD FOR THEM. So I came on here to ask. I might be new, but I'm not a dumb S#!t.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I might be new, but I'm not a dumb S#!t.

 

Nope. I wasn't figgerin that at all.

One thing I do like to impress upon any new reloader is to read, ask questions, (just as you have -but hopefully before you've purchased something you didn't want). That's all. I'm actually quite confident that someone, (other than you), learned something from your post. So... It's all good.

Except that you now either need to trade that box of fodder off, sell it, or use it as amunition with the wife when you say you need to buy another pistol chambered in 45 Long Colt.   

-Steve

[Jethro]

PA BEN, I have loaded a few 45 ACP loads, in 1911 pistols, what are you planning to do? shoot paper, steel?  I like a plated bullet like Rainier's, 200 and 230 grainers.
I love Titegroup powder , cheap and clean. seems like 5 to 5.5 grains titegroup is what I used for a nice target load, cycled gun perfect and light recoil.

my 

Jethro

[JackOfAllTrades]

Wait a sec..

I've got two Walmarts kinda sorta in my neck of the woods. Neither of them sell reloading components.

That's not fair!

-Steve

[PA BEN]

PA BEN, I have loaded a few 45 ACP loads, in 1911 pistols, what are you planning to do? shoot paper, steel?  I like a plated bullet like Rainier's, 200 and 230 grainers.
I love Titegroup powder , cheap and clean. seems like 5 to 5.5 grains titegroup is what I used for a nice target load, cycled gun perfect and light recoil.

my  

Jethro

I've been loading 230 gr. ball bullets and they shoot fine. I want to load some man stoppers for when I carry and home defense. I've got a box of 200 gr. HP/XTP now. Anybody read the link I posted? I googled it up and do I trust the link? BTW, I have Wilson Combat Heavy recoil springs, shok buff kit, full length slide rod. The heavier bullets should by fine for this gun. My only concern was the larger Di. size, .001 bigger.

[JackOfAllTrades]

.001" larger diameter is normal for Lead bullets. For 45acp most lead is/should be sized at .452". Target shooters will 'slug' their barrel to know what size to 're-size' their lead bullets to get the most accuracy out of a barrel. You'll find that 45cal jacketed bullets will vary from .451" to .454" for 45acp up through 45LC and such. As a general rule, 45acp barrels are designed for up to .452" plated or jacketed bullets. Add .001" for lead. But the norm for plated/jacketed is .451". The larger diameter lead bullet is usually of softer material than lead used in plated/jacketed bullets so it will constrict to the barrel diameter better, and since lead bullets are lubricated, they will create less friction than a slightly smaller plated bullet would. Since you don't load lead bullets to higher velocities, with a good seal resulting in less blow by, you actually get a more uniform pressure on all faces of the bullet heel. Thus, lead bullets are often much more accurate.

I'm not home to look at my books... But, that heavier LSWC running at 825fps may not hit as hard as a 230gn JHP running 925fps. Also, a longer 250gn LSWC may have feed issues in a standard 1911. It may work for you, but be warned, it may not.

The tried and proven 'bad guy stopper' for the 45acp is the 230gn JHP.  Winchester Black Tallons, Speer Gold Dot and such. My preference is http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1390117165.  This older Winchester JHP feeds like ball ammo. I've tested them in wet phone books, wet/dry sand, lumber and on bowling pins to result in excellent penetration, weight retention and expansion. Another excellent choice is: http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullet_detail.aspx?id=210

The LSWC bullets are not designed to expand at all. -Thus, not regarded as defensive bullets. The heavier LSWC'rs are designed as bowling pin busters and for heavy steel plates. The lighter LSWC'rs punch paper targets in competition. The heavier bullet will also result in more felt recoil from your handgun.

The link you posted is for the most part- from veteran reloaders. Use good reloading practices, such as 'working up' your own load looking for overpressure signs. But don't rely on Internet reloading information. The published manuals from the bullet manufactures are the gospel. Most reloaders have several reloading manuals. I have Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra and Lyman along with the ABC's of reloading. Each manual has thier special way to convey information.

Your choice of the 200gn JHPxtp is a better choice. I like the shoulder angle better than the Hornady 230gn JHPxtp. The heavier Hornady doesn't have the rolled angles that result in very reliable feeding as many other bullets do. YMMV.

-Steve

[Shootmoore]

This has turned into a very informative thread with a lot of good info.

On a side note for your desire to reload for defensive carry I will toss in a little word of caution.  Using reloads for self defense brings up a red herring in the civil suit that is sure to follow even a justifiable self defense shooting situation.  The plantifs lawyer will try to play on emotion of the jury that you are reloading for more damage, special man killer bullets etc etc.  Stupid and wrong I know but saddly a fact of life.  I reload for practice and hunting rounds, but for work and self defense carry I load up factory rounds just to reduce one red herring in the civil judicial system.

Sorry for the threadjack, but I believe in the right to keep and bear arms and the right of self defense and want legal gun owners to be aware of some of the pit traps out there.

Shootmoore

[JackOfAllTrades]

Shootmoore brings up a good point.. That could be a thread of it's own at quite a length as there has been on THR.org.

Personally. I load self defensive hand loads for my 1911's because I want optimal feeding and accuracy. In fact, they are a bit light loaded. Still very capable of stopping a perp.  

What's in mine and my wife's concealed carry revolvers? Remington Golden Sabers, Winchester HP Silvertips, Black Tallons. -All factory ammo.

-Steve

[Bofire]

Great info here, one item, per Masood Ayoob and the other guy who did all the research on "manstoppers" the hot load for the 45acp is the 185 grain HP. that said I shoot 230 in mine.
Carl

[JackOfAllTrades]

Just as the 140gn JHP is normally the hot load vs the 158gn JHP in the 357magnum, the 45acp has a bullet that can be sent with some velocity. Numbers don't lie.. Gelatine tests are very convincing. But over the last 100 years or so, the 230gn JHP has performed extremely well from a 45acp and 45ar.

Many people that I have competed with, shoot 200gn SWC's for the 50yd line for slow fire, then switch to 185gn loads for the 25yd line for timed and rapid fire. Difference is recoil and trajectory.

Off on a tangent here... I've got a pet load of a 250gn trunctated cone bullet for a 44magnum that flies a lot flatter and rivals the impact energy of my hot loaded 300gn softpoints. Both are devastating on Bear and Deer.

-Steve

[PA BEN]

My Nosler book said the slower 45 ACPs are more accreted.

[44 Flattop]

It doesn't matter what 'the book' says, it all depends on your own particular firearm as to what bullet, what powder, what case and primer and what velocity gives you the most accuracy. 

44

[JackOfAllTrades]

It doesn't matter what 'the book' says, it all depends on your own particular firearm as to what bullet, what powder, what case and primer and what velocity gives you the most accuracy.

This is true to some extent, but with given twist rates and barrel lengths for firearms worthy of calling relatively accurate, there are proven bullets and loads that will most often wring out the most accuracy of those given firearms.  The 148gn WC, for 38spl, or the H&G #68 mold for 200gn .452" 45acp pushed by 4.0gns of Bullseye or Titegroup (+- .1gn), has been proven to be extremely accurate at velocities under 835fps. There are few match grade or not.. Jacketed bullets that shoot as well as that concoction. 

There's not a lot 'unknown' about the 45acp. People have been shooting that cartridge in semi-autos for a hundred years and have tried just about everything to find even more accuracy.

Your statement is correct, In that even the best known 'slower target load' should still be refined/tinkered with for a particular firearm/barrel.

-Steve

[Bofire]

Masood and the other guy took info from actual shootings no gelitan, no tests. in hundreds of shootings they evaluated the catridges success or not. in 357 the 125 grain won hands down in 45 the 185 did. I do not remember the others right off but do remember the 357 was hands down the BEST one shot stopper used. I will try to find the study.
In my opinion velocity and accuracy mean nothing in this,(after all average shoot out distance is 21 feet or less) the info in the study is from ACTUAL SHOOTINGS/ police reports, on which cartridges stopped the assailant from further agression with one hit.
Carl

I found it:  Evan Marshal and Ed Sanow : "Handgun Stopping Power; The Definitive Study." Massad Ayoob consults on it. Massad is a reknown cop expert on police and defensive use of force and is an expert witness in many court cases. Marshal is a retired cop, highly trained. As I said this is info from Actual Shootings, no tests no theory.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I am familiar with the study/book and expert individuals. If I remember correctly, they didn't take in any military information. Although military 'Ball ammo' is round nose for maximum feed/function, they did do extensive tests with RNHP ammo. There have been conflicting stories and statistics. For the 45, a good many officers didn't handle the felt recoil result form the heavier bullet well enough to place disabling shots. Same with the heavier 357mag police loads.

I'm not arguing with you at all. I think we're both indicating that what PA BEN was after, in a heavier SWC as a chest bashing perp stopper, is the incorrect way to go. That the middle to light weight bullets for the 45acp are the proven defenders. He's seen the light and purchased the 200gn HP's, which is a great choice.

The key is that he's shooting a 45, and not a 40 or peski 9mm.

-Steve