Need Input... setups for Hoyt Alphamax... Arrows/heads etc...

[Hornseeker]

I dont even have the bow yet, but am excited to get it shooting good and get a hunting setup squared away asap...

I've been shooting trad for about 4 years now, before that I was finger shooter with an old compound off an NAP flipper... so honestly...I am clueless about these new release bows and drop aways and such..

I have been buying Axis 400's for the last couple years and have 5 dozen shafts... do you guys know if that will work for me with this 70# alphamax at 27.5 inches? I'm sure messing with head weight I can get them to work huh?

Personally...Id really like to be about 450 grains of arrow weight... is this going to be possible with this shaft? Or will I need stiffer to be able to use a heavier head...

How can you adjust these rests or whatever to compensate for the spine of the arrow not being perfect?


Thanks,

Ernie

[jackelope]

I think 400 spines is what you want to be shooting, no?

if the arrows are camo'd and 29" long, they'll weigh 284 grains bare according to easton's website, add nock, inserts, vanes, wraps, heads, you'll be really close to your 450 grains.

http://www.eastonarchery.com/products/selection

i don't know enough about this stuff to rattle it off the top of my head, but their site is a good resource.
 

[bowhuntin]

You are going to want arrows spined to 340 if you are pulling 70#s. It really depends on the length of the arrow though. 400s would probably work if the bow was only set at 65lbs. What length of arrow will you be shooting? Check out easton's spine chart to check your setup.

I shoot easton axis arrows cut at 29" with 100 grain heads and I am right at 420 grains. You might get closer to 450 with 125 grain head, but Full Metal Jackets are a lot better if you want a heavier shaft. The same setup on my bow with 100 grain tips is well over 450 grains.

As far as rest goes check out the hostage pro made by octane or the spot hogg whammy drop away. The hostage is full containment like a whisker biscuit but it doesn't contact your vanes. I have the whammy on my bow right now. i haven't had any issues with it. It is well made and is always in the up position unlike traditional drop aways. Nice thing about it being in the up position is that the arrow won't pop off the rest if you draw really quick like can happen sometimes with other drop aways.

[JBar]

400's will be fine if your draw length is 27.5, you just don't want your arrow any longer than 28". I don't think you'd make the legal weight at that length but you could drop your bow weight down to 65ish. I agree on the FMJ's my 27" arrow with a wrap and 2" quick spins is right at 425. I would not go with a full capture rest with the alpha max as I've seen they don't tune really easy with them. IMO a trophy taker rest would work well with your set up.

[jackelope]

I am shooting a trophy taker shakey hunter on my AM32 and it is butter...


at 9.8gpi for a st axis RT at 28" is 274 grains, plus say 100 grain head=374 grains then isa there not enough weight in vanes, nock, inserts, wraps etc to make 420 grains?
i'm kinda a noob to all this stuff so i am just asking...
just thinking...Hornseeker is from montana so i don't know if arrow weight is an issue as far as law goes, but my question still stands.

[SpokaneSlayer]

Jackelope - Are you asking if all the add ons like vanes, nocks, inserts, etc. will make 420 grains?  I looked on the Easton site and found that your nock weighs 9 gr and the insert weighs 16 grains.  What kind of vanes are you using?  I believe Blazers are 5 grains each.  That would put you at 414 grains.  I would think adding a wrap would do the trick.

[JBar]

I am shooting a trophy taker shakey hunter on my AM32 and it is butter...


at 9.8gpi for a st axis RT at 28" is 274 grains, plus say 100 grain head=374 grains then isa there not enough weight in vanes, nock, inserts, wraps etc to make 420 grains?
i'm kinda a noob to all this stuff so i am just asking...
just thinking...Hornseeker is from montana so i don't know if arrow weight is an issue as far as law goes, but my question still stands.

Yeah he'll be under that's why I suggested dropping to 65#, I'm just barely over with my FMJ's. It will really all depend on what vanes, wrap or no wrap, 4"  wrap or 7". I'm only assuming he's got the Axis RT, if it's black it won't even come close to 420.

[jackelope]

Jackelope - Are you asking if all the add ons like vanes, nocks, inserts, etc. will make 420 grains?  I looked on the Easton site and found that your nock weighs 9 gr and the insert weighs 16 grains.  What kind of vanes are you using?  I believe Blazers are 5 grains each.  That would put you at 414 grains.  I would think adding a wrap would do the trick.

I know that i am heavy enough, but i am running camo'd 340 st axis, 4 blazer vanes, wraps and 100 grain heads.
I'm also shooting 31.5" at 10.3gpi.

[SpokaneSlayer]

Ah ok, must have misunderstood.  Disregard then.

[colockumelk]

I didn't like the Trophy Taker I had on my Alpha Max.  It just wouldn't tune right.  I tried for 3 months and shot 100-200 arrows a week trying to get it right.  It shot GOOD, but not GREAT. (I kept getting vane clearance issues.)   I went to a whisker bisquit and it tuned slightly BETTER but again not GREAT.  After my Montana Trip I'm going to try out the QAD ultra rest as I've heard great things. 

So my take is the Trophy Taker and the Bisquit will tune GOOD, but not GREAT. 

[jackelope]

i couldn't tell you the difference between good and great but i did have all my tuning done at a pro shop and it tuned fine to them. they didn't mention any troubles..i just said ok thanks very much. it shoots great i know that.

[JBar]

I know what you meen Clockum, before you buy more stuff you may not need try setting your arrow level about 1/8 to 1/4 inch above center of the berger hole instead of even with it. Though this means you'll need to also adjust you nock point up it should give you the clearance your looking for. Had to do this with my Vectrix and it worked great.

[coonhound]

I use the trophy taker on my AM35 and love it, i did have to pull it up a little earlier than I did with my Mathews Outback but now it shoots amazing.  I've got it coming up 2.5" before full draw.

As far as the arrows, I shot the 400's for a few years at 28" and they shot great.  I used 4 Blazers and 100grn heads and couldn't quite hit 420 grns, I just backed it down to 68 lbs and life was good.

Coon

[D-Rock425]

I shoot a alphamax 35.  spot hogg sight, QAD ultra rest

[Hornseeker]

I cant wait to get my hands on this bow... I have been shooting longbows strictly for 4 years and an outdated PSE before that... this is going to be like some futuristic chit for me!! Gonna be fun!

I dont believe MT has an arrow weight minimum... I also dont know how easy the alphamax is to ajdust weight on? Can you guys tell me? My buddy that I'm buying it from just said, "Its 70#"... But shouldn't it be a 60-70 or  a 70-80-???

Like I said, I have a boat load of axis st shafts, camo and black...

[SpokaneSlayer]

It's pretty easy to adjust the draw weight.  Just adjust the the limb bolts.  Make sure you adjust the bolts the same on each limb.  If it's a 70# bow, it's adjustable from 60 to 70.

[carpsniperg2]

not always true spokaneslayer some bows say 60-70 and don't adjust that much i have spent may hours in a pro shop in my life and allot of bows will adjust about 5-6 lbs and then there is bows like my x force that is 80lbs and it will go from 83 max to 69min just because it says that much does not mean it will do it. i know pwople that have got injured for that reason keep backing off to try to get 10 lbs of drop and had the limb bolts strip out i will not go more than 4 complete turns myself on any bow most factorys say you are fine with 5 but i like more than 1cm of threads holding my bow together

[xXx Archery]

I cant wait to get my hands on this bow... I have been shooting longbows strictly for 4 years and an outdated PSE before that... this is going to be like some futuristic chit for me!! Gonna be fun!

I dont believe MT has an arrow weight minimum... I also dont know how easy the alphamax is to ajdust weight on? Can you guys tell me? My buddy that I'm buying it from just said, "Its 70#"... But shouldn't it be a 60-70 or  a 70-80-???

Like I said, I have a boat load of axis st shafts, camo and black...

I woulsd say its a 60-70lbs...you can just back the limb bolts out ...max about 4-5 turns to be safe

[Hornseeker]

Well, I will be in good hands for help, as the owner of the bow worked in a pro shop for several years... but lately I cant gem him to be social (busy guy at the moment) so I am just asking questions that are popping in my head!!

Thanks much!

So, I am thinking for an antelope, whitetail, muley setup I am going to go with the lighterweight arrows and a smaller head... I say this, because being a trad guy, I have been shooting heavy stuff for the last 4 years.. I'm talking 500-700 grains with broadheads and weights that take the front end up to 260 grains... But I think with the lighter game especially...Id be real safe shooting 375-400 grains... dont ya think??

Thanks again!

Ernie

[SpokaneSlayer]

375 to 400 grains would be fine on deer sized game.  I shoot 346 grain arrows and it put the hammer down on my deer.  BTW - there is a weight minimum in MT.  It's 300 grains, not that you would be shooting that light of an arrow.  One thing to consider when shooting light arrows, it could be louder as light arrows don't absorb as much energy as heavier ones.

[Hornseeker]

Right on... I do understand that, as its the same with trad bows...probably more exaggerated actually...

Thanks for the input all..

E

[Todd_ID]

Why a traditional guy would have 5 dozen Axis 400's laying around is a bit beyond me..... Just kidding.  I'm sure there's a good reason. 

70 pounds is quite a bit once you get into real hunting situations unless you are a seriously tough individual.  I am not, and I've learned to dial it down to match.  Yeah, I can shoot 70 pounds with no problems on ranges and at 3D shoots, but getting back to full draw with cold muscles in the most compromising position with the least amount of movement is what you should be after.  If you set chokers for a living and can bench press about the same as an NFL player, then 70 is fine.  If you're a normal guy, like the majority of us, then 60 pounds is a much better choice when the elk is 10 yards away, your heart is racing, and you don't want to be caught drawing your bow.

Should you aspire to stay with 70 pounds and the 400 spine and 125 grain heads, then you need to keep them suckers as short as you can (like the back of the blades almost hitting the rest).  That might get you close to being fine for spine; I think though that you'd have better luck with 100 grain heads in this case.  If you dial it down to 65 pounds, then the super-short arrow and 125 grain heads would be pushing the envelope at .400 spine.  Going to 60 pounds would allow you to cut the arrow at the front of the riser where you wouldn't cut your fingers all to heck (yeah, that does happen often) and use 125 grain heads. 

Arrow wraps add about 3-5 grains for a 4" to 7" wrap, so don't count on much weight there.  Nock is 9 grains, insert 16 grains, vanes are 5 each for Blazers, 7 each for 4" vanes, or 22 for FOB's, and about 3 grains for glue; beyond that use GPI x times length to get shaft weight and weight of head to get finished arrow weight.

My take is that 60 pounds and 125 grain heads would be your best bet.  That'll do more than a little damage on anything you want to hunt, even elk and moose. The best thing, though, is that you'll be able to draw it back undetected when you need to.  We only get so many opportunities to shoot a critter, and we don't want to mess those up.

Keep posting questions on here because somebody on here will know the answer!  Good luck!!

[colockumelk]

I know what you meen Clockum, before you buy more stuff you may not need try setting your arrow level about 1/8 to 1/4 inch above center of the berger hole instead of even with it. Though this means you'll need to also adjust you nock point up it should give you the clearance your looking for. Had to do this with my Vectrix and it worked great.

JBAR I tried everything including what you just mentioned.  I think it just boils down to some products work great for some and don't work as good for others.  My brother has the Trophy Taker and works awsome for him (the reason I got it).   


.

[Hornseeker]

Todd,

I will definitely make sure the weight is comfortable for me. I am no "macho man" .... If I think 60 feels best...that is where I"ll be. Thanks for the support though!

Axis shafts have been fantastic for me and my trad setups... Then I keep seing Mountain Archery selling them for 49-52$ a dozen and I just keep buying them!! If they work for this bow... then I am basically set for several years. I have 5 dozen Brand new shafts, never touched...that does not include about 2 dozen that are floating around cut off, fletched, various inserts and wraps and such on them... Yeah, I've got a problem....

[colockumelk]

Did you say Easton Axis Carbon Shafts for $52 dollars a dozen?? Where is this place and will they ship arrows to me?  That is about 70 bucks a dozen under the MSRP.   

[mossback91]

Did you say Easton Axis Carbon Shafts for $52 dollars a dozen?? Where is this place and will they ship arrows to me?  That is about 70 bucks a dozen under the MSRP.   

www.mountain-archery.com

[Hornseeker]

Hey all, just an update!

I finally got the bow in hand...man...what a machine this thing is! It is set at 27", my Axis 400's are cut to 27" and I am using a 125 field point... I had her cranked down, didnt measure draw weight, but assume its near 70#... I shot quite a bit, but it was a tad uncomfortable. I ended up 3 turns down and can "easily" pull it back in a controlled and steady motion... The arrows seem to fly perfectly at 70# and now at 3 turns down, only hitting about 1 inch lower than they were...

This bow is soooo easy to shoot I cant believe it.

I also worked up a 26" Axis 340 with a 100 grain brass insert... with a 125 head. It flew perfectly but hits about 4 inhces under the other arrows. At closer ranges though, man, this thing would be deadly with all that FOC and some extra weight!

Thanks again,

E

[jackelope]

I think I am gonna turn mine 3 turns down too...I've been thinking about it, and now thanks to Todd I need to buy new arrows, so I might as well I guess.

[colockumelk]

Thanks for the link.  I am will now shoot Axis arrows.  SWEET!!!!

[Intruder]

I didn't like the Trophy Taker I had on my Alpha Max.  It just wouldn't tune right.  I tried for 3 months and shot 100-200 arrows a week trying to get it right.  It shot GOOD, but not GREAT. (I kept getting vane clearance issues.)   I went to a whisker bisquit and it tuned slightly BETTER but again not GREAT.  After my Montana Trip I'm going to try out the QAD ultra rest as I've heard great things. 
So my take is the Trophy Taker and the Bisquit will tune GOOD, but not GREAT. 

Wow... really?  I'm sure there are other good fall aways out there but I know at least 10 guys shooting TT including myself and none have ever had a problem tuning.  Wonding if there's not sumthin else goin on... 

70 pounds is quite a bit once you get into real hunting situations unless you are a seriously tough individual.  I am not, and I've learned to dial it down to match.  Yeah, I can shoot 70 pounds with no problems on ranges and at 3D shoots, but getting back to full draw with cold muscles in the most compromising position with the least amount of movement is what you should be after.  If you set chokers for a living and can bench press about the same as an NFL player, then 70 is fine.  If you're a normal guy, like the majority of us, then 60 pounds is a much better choice when the elk is 10 yards away, your heart is racing, and you don't want to be caught drawing your bow.

That is good advice.  I'm all for shooting as much and as fast as possible but make sure you can not only draw super smoothly but that you can hold it a long time.  I think I'm dialed in at 66 right now. This summer my buddy and I are going to play with my chrono and just for grins shoot a bunch of different poundages out of our bows/setups to see if we can find a sweet spot.  Have heards some bows have a distinct point of deminishing returns based on pounds and you setup.  Should be a good waste of an afternoon if nothing else 

[colockumelk]

Yeah Intruder I don't know either.  Like I said I spent all summer trying to find a sweet spot for my TT and just couldn't make it happen.  I don't know if it was the bow/shooter setup or just a malfunctioning shooter.     In any case I didn't have enough confidence in it to hunt with.  That is just for me though.  Like I said my brother and also a friend shoots it and they love it.  So I still recommend it to anyone who asks. 

[WonkyWapiti]

I've got a 29 inch draw on my AM32, using a TT pronghorn rest with Easton Axis nano's (340's), 100 grain fieldpoints with four flexfletch vanes.  For a broadhead I have been using Hell Razors.  I've got it set at 66 pounds.  The thing shoots better than I can.