unit four five four

[npaull]

Cougar definitely haven't helped any, but I feel that the development of the rural areas in the 454 has had a tremendous amount to do with the decreased populations of deer and elk. Human population here has gotten way bigger in the last decade, and an awful lot of habitat has gone to houses etc. I think people are underestimating the effects of all the development and loss of habitat.

[tmike]

Predators, development, poaching, over harvest, the game department, over population. I don't think you can blame the decline on any one factor. My  If cats are being dumped there that would compound things. I feel your frustration Axle I live in 454.

[AKBowman]

I dont know...people seem to do pretty well on deer in the area. I went out there and hung my stand one evening and ended up shooting a little button buck. It was wierd he was on a does ass and seemed to be on the smelly side and in the rut.

[Axle]

Cougar definitely haven't helped any, but I feel that the development of the rural areas in the 454 has had a tremendous amount to do with the decreased populations of deer and elk. Human population here has gotten way bigger in the last decade, and an awful lot of habitat has gone to houses etc. I think people are underestimating the effects of all the development and loss of habitat.

There has been very little development in the areas where the elk have been over the past 3 decades. The development that has taken place has been good to them. The big cats will normally stay away from most developed areas. When the elk live among the farms and housing areas, they survive and they get used to people (habituated). The only reason some of them are left is because they came out of the hills and into the housing areas. Otherwise they would get eaten if they stayed up there. There is still more than enough room for them back up in the hills! They are more afraid of the predators than humans. They can adapt to humans. They can't adapt to something that is constantly trying to kill them. When game is plentiful, cougars kill for fun just like wolves do. That's just playtime for a big cat.

Blaming the decline and problems on human expansion is what the media will do (along with people who listen to them). Most hunters know what kills elk and deer - and it isn't a house.

I'm not attacking anyone's opinion here, just giving out good info on this.

[Galpster]

I have to agree with Axle here. Development does take away habitat but elk and deer to get used to it and end up being back yard deer!

I think the biggest threat in this unit is it is heavily hunted. I have driven by Taylor mountain and seen a half dozen trucks parked at each and every gate.

Predators would be my second guess though I haven't seen a kittie yet up there. I would love to go kill a few though.

[npaull]

I'm not denying predator's impact either... I do think in the long run development is a much bigger and scarier enemy though. There's only so much development big game will handle. Elk in particular are sensitive to too much human intrusion. Malls and concrete bother me a lot more than cougar tracks.

Again, Axle, I think we probably agree for the most part on this issue we are just talking up different sides of the coin.

[Dmanmastertracker]

 How late is cougar open this year in 454? There are still a lot of elk in 454, I know of a trophy bull taken just last year and have a friend with private acreage in there that has seen as many as 16 branch antlered bulls running together. Truth be told some areas that were cut, or thinned have grown up, I'm seeing less deer in the area also this year on the public ground. I do know of one cow also taken, I will just say that it was packed out on horses, it was a ways back there.

[Axle]

How late is cougar open this year in 454? There are still a lot of elk in 454, I know of a trophy bull taken just last year and have a friend with private acreage in there that has seen as many as 16 branch antlered bulls running together. Truth be told some areas that were cut, or thinned have grown up, I'm seeing less deer in the area also this year on the public ground. I do know of one cow also taken, I will just say that it was packed out on horses, it was a ways back there.

Cougar is open through March 31st.
If your buddy needs help thinning them out, just let me know. We only have two more days and I would be happy to put meat in his freezer. Yours too.

Last year, my son and I saw a lot less deer around where we normally hunt in the unit (about 60% less). There was a cougar or two working the area and there still is. One was seen about 3 weeks ago. I need more time and energy to get it.

[swanny]

Haven't seen as many deer around the area this year, but saw a HUGE bull in the back of a trailer under the power lines in Ravensdale. My in-laws neighbors also had a small heard of elk destroy their fence one night when he came home from work and they took off. They said they have been hearing them bugle a lot this year down low as well.

[Bigbuckoholic]

Speant alot of time in this area. My ex girlfriend lived in ravensdale. I used to see 10-15 elk everynight driving home from her house, Anything from big cows to good size bulls. Also lots of bears and cougars. She has seen 3 in her yard alone. Guess we just got to get to the big boys before the cougars do   

[Axle]

One of the problems is that some of the best area was turned into a king county park and there is no hunting in there anymore.  This lets the predators expand too much to all areas. 
Can I say idiots in this post?

[tmike]

So are you saying part of the problem is human expansion?

[Axle]

So are you saying part of the problem is human expansion?

Oh no, not at all. Expansion has been extremely limited here for a long time. The deer and elk love to hang around housing areas. It gives them more rose bushes and green lawns to eat from.
If they had not come off the mountains and into the residential areas, most of the elk would be all gone. They have refuge in the housing area. Plus it is nice to see them in the fields but I would rather they were up on the mountains so I can hunt them like I used to.

[tmike]

OK.. so the creation of the park, making that area no hunting, has led to more cougars because they aren't being harvested and the elk concentrate their also? or it pushes the cougar to surrounding areas thus concentrating them? Is that what you mean?

[Axle]

OK.. so the creation of the park, making that area no hunting, has led to more cougars because they aren't being harvested and the elk concentrate their also? or it pushes the cougar to surrounding areas thus concentrating them? Is that what you mean?

The creation of that 'park' keeps hunters from hunting in there. There are a lot of bears in there. I have no doubt the cougars would seek refuge in there. It is almost like the watershed. We don't have access to hunt the shed. This allows the predators to over-populate. They will then move out into surrounding areas when they have consumed the game within their area but they still have refuge in the shed when needed.

I've seen a few guys who were running bears in the stampede unit (years ago) and had to call off the dogs due to the wathershed because they couldn't go in there. Locking us out of certain areas is bad for the area around it. It ends up having an effect on a much larger piece of land and it isn't the deer and elk that are winning in this case.