unit four five four

[tmike]

Which Park are you talking about? As far as the Green River watershed the elk got hammered in there by both Non native and Native hunters for several years. It borders 454. The Stampede is still getting pounded by the Natives.You should know weren't there 50 plus bull tags given to the non natives for several years in a row in the Green River watershed? To me that's another impact you can't ignore. I try to look at the big picture.

[hoytem]

last day of archery got three arrows off. first one hit brush and at the feet of a cow. second over back of a cow and third  directly at a 3 point at 20 yards ... no blood and hit a tree or branch. looked for several hours today and nothing. i was very excited to get on elk in a local area though let alone get an arrow off.

[Crunchy]

Sounds like u had a real good day of hunting there hoytem.

[tmike]

That's a great day! Sorry you didn't connect.

[swanny]

I'm guessing the park is Taylor Mt?

Saw some guys on the east side of Tiger bow hunting around 9:30 this morning on my way up to Snoqualmie. Was that you hoytem?

[Axle]

Which Park are you talking about? As far as the Green River watershed the elk got hammered in there by both Non native and Native hunters for several years. It borders 454. The Stampede is still getting pounded by the Natives.You should know weren't there 50 plus bull tags given to the non natives for several years in a row in the Green River watershed? To me that's another impact you can't ignore. I try to look at the big picture.

I've been looking at the big picture in this state since 1983. I've lived in and hunted the 454 unit since 1985. You are talking mostly about the green river watershed now, not 454. The stampede gets hammered by Indians (cougars too) and 454 gets hunted year-round by Indians whenever they want.

As far as the green river watershed, the elk did not get 'hammered' by us. There are 'x number' of tags given out due to 'x number' of elk that reside in an area. The Indians might 'hammer' them, but the rest of us are limited to harvesting certain numbers of them. 50 tags is nothing for a unit that size and only 'x number' of tags get filled anyway. The department will not give us so many tags that it will deplete the elk in a unit. We get left-overs. They can't stop the Indians from shooting all of them but they can ask them to cool off for a bit and let the critters come back to better numbers.

A friend of mine used to keep up on the green river watershed for years. According to him, there used to be well over 800 elk in it. I'm certain this is a good number. I used to ride snowmobile and go over to the old town of Lester and view the elk in winter. There were large numbers of elk back then. Some huge bulls too. In the early '90s, the cougar numbers went through the roof in this area. The area where the elk would winter suddenly became a blood bath. There are a few who witnessed this. Some watershed personnel saw this too.

The excessive harvest by tribes and cougars brought the herd size down to about 160 elk in 2 or 3 years. The game department 'asked' the Indians not to take any more till the numbers increased. They then took some elk from the St. Helens area and put them in the watershed. This was probably done so the Indians could shoot them as they ran out of the trucks and nobody was around to witness the atrocity. The reason the department gave out for transplanting elk in there was to 'get the genetics into better shape and increase herd size and strength'. You can't increase the herd size and keep all the cougars too. It doesn't work that way.

The 'park' I am referring to is contained in these parcel numbers which can be found on King counties web site: http://www5.kingcounty.gov/parcelviewer/viewer/kingcounty/viewer.asp

Parcel numbers 3123079003, 3223079011, 3223079027, 3223079021, 3223079021, and several others. It goes all the way to the Seattle watershed. This type of park is not like Mt Rainier or Lake Sammamish park but there is still no hunting allowed in it. Indians can hunt it though - and I'm not saying that is bad but I will say they need to do their part in getting rid of predators. This is something they have failed at doing.

There is also some property that is north of this area and is owned by Sirios Timber Partners LP. They don't want hunters on their property now. Yet another chunk of land we are locked out of.

[hoytem]

I'm guessing the park is Taylor Mt?

Saw some guys on the east side of Tiger bow hunting around 9:30 this morning on my way up to Snoqualmie. Was that you hoytem?

wasn't me this all happened from 3:00 pm to dark. and wasn't near tiger mt. more by ______

[hoytem]

wish i had a camera with me. i saw what looked like a half albino doe as well.

[tmike]

Sorry for the threadjack AKBowman, if you want some Ideas i have some ideas I could give you. Send me a PM if you want. When the Watershed herd was around 900 animals the Non Native permits went near 100% filled the first few years, that along with Native harvest it had an impact. The cats did too.  The only reason I brought it up was because you did Axle to make your point. I also don't see how you can compare your 500 acre, 80 acre and 161 acre areas, zoned residential,('Parks') to any watershed.  You say those are good for the elk, but bad for you because you can't hunt there. To me those are human expansion and development. I think I'm missing your point. One thing I do agree on is that it isn't what it used to be.

[Dmanmastertracker]

I've seen a few guys who were running bears in the stampede unit (years ago) and had to call off the dogs due to the wathershed because they couldn't go in there. Locking us out of certain areas is bad for the area around it. It ends up having an effect on a much larger piece of land and it isn't the deer and elk that are winning in this case.
[/quote]


 I have to agree with you Axle. I've been hounding the State every years to open up the watersheds to at least selective hunting for years. This story, well no really just plain bullcrap that they must keep it closed to human access just doesn't hold any water when the tribes are in there hauling out deer and elk every year in the Cedar. Just another hypocritical element of our politician's view of our right's in this State. If there's game there and it's State land, then it should be open for hunting (same for City's too, when did they also get the right to act like independent Countries and put game out of reach?). After all, the watersheds are not within any City limits, yet they are treated like they are.

[Axle]

When the Watershed herd was around 900 animals the Non Native permits went near 100% filled the first few years, that along with Native harvest it had an impact. The cats did too.

And we agree.

The only reason I brought it up was because you did Axle to make your point. I also don't see how you can compare your 500 acre, 80 acre and 161 acre areas, zoned residential,('Parks') to any watershed.

It's more than that (there are more parcels) and I made a simple analogy that we are being locked out of these areas just like watersheds. I didn't add anymore till you expanded on it.
We can't hunt this new park, and now the private investment LP back east doesn't want us hunting their land either (which is just north of this park). Between those two, that is a lot of land and perhaps the best part of Taylor Mt on the west side of it.

You say those are good for the elk, but bad for you because you can't hunt there. To me those are human expansion and development. I think I'm missing your point.

The area is good for elk when predators aren't eating them up. Problem is, we can't go in there for elk or predators either one. This is another area off limits now and the predators populate quickly when you don't keep their numbers in check. Anyone who has been in predator control will know this. I used to be a trapper and it is not easy to keep up with controlling numbers.
The land has not been developed. It was only sold and categorized as a park. This isn't human expansion because nothing was built, we are simply locked out of the area from hunting due to regulations. The elk moved out of there long ago (for the most part) due to cats.

One thing I do agree on is that it isn't what it used to be.

Not even close my friend! Not even close.