Recreational shooter restrictions

[texas fling]

I got this from a friend through an email. Has this been seen by anybody else. What are your taughts. http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=3355

Washington Fish & Wildlife Commission Clamps Down on Recreational Shooting
 
Friday, January 11, 2008
 
At a public meeting last month, the nine-member Washington Fish & Wildlife Commission unanimously adopted rules that will make it easier to prohibit recreational shooting on all state land controlled by the Department of Fish & Wildlife (DFW) and that imposes other restrictions on shooters.

Ignoring the concerns raised by NRA members, including testimony provided by NRA staff at the meeting, the Commission unanimously rubberstamped the proposal that was before it.  The new rules, WAC 232-13-130 (1) (b), authorize the DFW to prohibit the discharge of firearms on any or all portions of Department land at any time and for any (or no) reason.  Without public notice or input, DFW will be able to prohibit recreational shooting on any state land by merely posting signs.  In turn, it may designate limited areas open for limited shooting under WAC 232-13-130 (2).

Further, the rules create an arbitrary 1000-foot diameter “no-shooting area” around every designated campground (500 feet out in all directions).  It was clearly conveyed to the Commission that one individual could be “illegally” shooting 100 feet away from a campground and be entirely safe while another could be “legally” shooting 501 feet away and be unsafe.  Specific local conditions such as topography and variables such as campground usage and the direction of the shooting should be the relevant factors.  Essentially, all nine commissioners went along with the argument made by the DFW Chief of Enforcement that campgrounds should be covered by the same standards already in state law that apply a 500 foot buffer around schools and homes.  They ignored the NRA arguments that there are very basic differences between schools and homes in populated areas and campgrounds in the middle of rural, forested land where recreational shooting has occurred safely for generations.

Incredibly, the Commission even refused to add language that would exempt the discharge of a firearm for self-defense in campgrounds.  As NRA pointed out during the public meeting, the new blanket prohibition violates Article I, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution.

Finally, WAC 232-13-130 (1) (c) now makes it unlawful to fail to remove expended shell casings and other target shooting debris after shooting activities.  Another NRA suggestion that a “good faith effort” or “due diligence” standard be added to the language was ignored.  What this means in practical terms is that a conscientious shooter who makes a legitimate attempt to clean up after his target practice session, but recovers only 99 percent of the shell casings he fired, is subject to sanctions for “littering.”

It is important to note that there were four sections of the proposed rules that were very controversial.  In addition to the section on firearms and shooting, there were sections regarding vehicle use, livestock and resource removal.  The Commission acknowledged the concerns of the other user groups by voting to defer action on those issues but ignored the concerns of shooters when adopting the restrictive language outlined above.  This action is a clear indication of how commissioners feel about the concerns of shooters as compared to those of other public land users.  Firearm owners and recreational shooters need to stand up and take note of how this policy-setting body and its individual members feel about your interests and rights!

Unfortunately, the vote has been taken and, for now, the damage has been done.  However, amendments to the section on firearms could be made in the future.  With this in mind, here are some things you can do in response to the action taken by the WDFW Commission:

1)       Contact the Commission office to politely and respectfully express your displeasure with the action taken by the Commission regarding firearms and target shooting.  Ask that staff forward your concerns to all nine commissioners.  The Commission staff can be reached by E-mail at  commission@dfw.wa.gov or by phone at 360/902-2267.

2)       Contact Governor Gregoire’s office to politely and respectfully express your displeasure with the action taken by the Fish & Wildlife Commission regarding firearms and target shooting.  All nine of the current commissioners were appointed by Governor Gregoire.  Contact information for the Governor can be found at the following link:  http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp

3)       Contact your legislators to let them know what the WDFW Commission has done and express your concerns.  Not only must the DFW work closely with the legislature (including for approval of its budget!) but, at the present time, a majority of the commissioners are still pending confirmation.  They may have significant leverage to influence future changes in the adopted rules!  Call the legislative hotline at 800/562-6000 or visit the legislative website to find your district and legislators:  http://www.leg.wa.gov/legislature

4)       Pay close attention to the issues considered by the WDFW Commission and watch how they vote on issues of concern to shooters, hunters and firearm owners.  Attend Commission meetings, especially when they are in your geographical area.  Find out if any of the commissioners live in your area and schedule a meeting with them.  Discuss your concerns and establish a dialogue with the goal of working to change the adopted rules or at least influence future decisions.  A list of Commissioners can be found at the following link:  http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/com/commiss.htm  Click on the individual names for the commissioners’ biographies but don’t be fooled by those who claim to be hunters and firearm enthusiasts…they all voted against you!

5)       Contact the NRA if you see DFW land being closed to shooting, if you know of areas around certain campgrounds (to be closed soon) where shooting is safe and appropriate or if you are subjected to unreasonable enforcement action by DFW personnel for legitimate shooting activities (i.e. the unreasonable “littering” standard).  DFW commissioners have “promised” shooters there will be no illegitimate closures or over-enforcement.  NRA can be reached at:  800/392-8683.
 

 
 
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[KillBilly]

I for one will be most happy to not hear the constant hammering of semi auto weapons blasting away in Capitol Forest. It seems like there is always someone shooting no matter where you go. Granted Sportmans clubs and ranges are somewhat expensive but they have some very good rules and take all precautions ensure safety. They certainly do not allow shooters to endanger quad & motorcycle riders as happens frequently in CF. The folks causing the problems are probably not in the hearings defending their second amendment rights to shoot the hell out of the State lands while endangering non shooting users. It had to come to this sooner or later because of the irresponsible actions of a few. Lost ground is hard to regain and I don't believe we will convince the state that things will improve. I am an ardent NRA supporter but even their power cannot overcome the facts and truth. Maybe I'll be able to sneak on a buck now without the sounds of a war breaking out.

[billythekidrock]

Same here.

[ICEMAN]

Come on guys. So let's ban shooting in the woods, because of the trash left behind by the unscrupulous. Lets make lawbreakers out of all gun enthusiasts.

Do you really think, that the shooting will stop? The trouble makers will find a place to shoot, and the "good guys" who shoot, are now forced into who knows what. Where will I go to shoot?

The problem with state land is that no one is around to enforce the laws anyway. Write three hundred new laws! Go ahead! So What! Do you think it is going to really help?  I pick up trash each time I enjoy Capitol Forest. I have turned in trash dumpers twice. Enforcement got "right back" to me...four days later! There are already laws on the books making the dumping of trash on state land illegal. We need to make it illegal twice? I guess motorcyclists don't bother the game, or make noise.... Horses don't crap all over the trail.  Loggers ever leave a trace? (Cables, chains, rope, barlube, milk jugs, old broken equipment, *censored* everywhere. )

Giving in and accepting their mind set will get us all locked out of Capitol Forest.

[KillBilly]

I have enforcement on speed dial. If i see shooters breaking the law, I have no problem using my phone. I believe it is part of my Charter as a master Hunter to report violations.

[bearhunter59]

just wondering if your as quick to call enforcement on those quad and atv riders, riding off-road, and illegally up there, as you are someone up there plinkin'?  those are the guys that piss me off more than the plinkers...

[bobcat]

It sounds good to me. If people want to shoot they should join a club. But I do wonder if Capitol Forest is included in these new rules, as it is not Dept. of Fish and Wildlife land. The rules apply to "state land controlled by the Department of Fish & Wildlife." It is unclear to me whether this means land owned by the state Dept. of Natural Resources.

[sasquatch]

Have to agree with Iceman and Bearhunter59.

[Bscman]

I have no problem with it, unless they go buck wild and start posting ALL state land as no shooting.

Ranges can be very troublesome.
In my area, the nearest range for rifles/handguns is a 45minute drive away. On top of that, it is ALWAYS crowded and I have to pay EXTRA fee's since I'm a resident of another county. Tell me how this is fair!
They also do not let my bring my own targets, which means I have to over-pay for THEIR targets. I see a LOT of unsafe actions at this range, as well. Lest we forget that they are rarely open during hours I can use--except for just prior to deer season, which is obviously too crowded to get ample use.

We've been lobbying to get a range open in my area, and it keeps getting shut down.

How is this fair?
Now I can't shoot on state land, I can't afford to time/hassle/cost of shooting at the only open range (that isn't even near-by), these crazy hippies/yuppies keep shutting down our attempts at getting an official range onpen, and there are very few other area's that I can SAFELY shoot.

This is just one more way for the goobermint to further control us law abiding gun owners.

Shooters need to realize that the goverment is the stove and we are the frogs.
If they slowly turn up the heat they can expect us to stay in the water until we're finally cooked and dead. They know if they try and throw us in boiling water right off, we'll just jump out and fight back.
Slowly buy surely they take away our rights, one little piece at a time, hoping we don't notice.

Before you know it, it'll be illegal to shoot on ALL public land. Official ranges will be taxed to death and forced to close. Ammunition will be taxed to the point we cannot afford to shoot. But they'll let us keep our guns.... 

The problem with shooters is that they are so divided in their beliefs.
Some shoot "tactical" shotguns and semi-auto black rifles....while the purist/hunting crowd sees those firearms as useless.
The high-dollar guys are against "saturday night special" guns while for others, that's all they can afford.

United we could crush any attempt against us, but divided into the groups we are currently in....we don't have much of a chance.

With society the way it is today, and the upcoming elections (I know I am scared!) we are on the road to:

feature=related

Call me over the top. Call me crazy. But I see the signs.

[billythekidrock]

just wondering if your as quick to call enforcement on those quad and atv riders, riding off-road, and illegally up there, as you are someone up there plinkin'?

Has nothing to do with plinkers. The problem is the guys that run up there with a couple thousand rounds and they start shooting away, at everything. The guys that are useing the semi or full autos to shoot up tv's, pumpkins and bottles. The same ones that shoot signs, posts and trees. The ones that shoot a couple cases of shotgun shells and leave the hulls and targets for everyone to see.

[ICEMAN]

Bscman, where the hell have you been hiding! Excellent points, well stated, fantastic reality check.

You da' man! 

This isn't about normal guys shooting, but it affects normal guys shooting.

Why don't we pound on the law breakers and give the law abiders a break. All this legislation does is to inconvenience the good guys. If it is so dangerous to plink, than close the woods to hunting! No,... let's just close it for modern rifle. Then next year; muzzle. Attention bow hunters, do you really want all of us riflemen learning to bowhunt when you are out hunting?

I bet more people get injured or killed in the capitol forest while riding mountain bikes and horses. Think about it! ?Maybe we should outlaw mountain bikes from within 1000 feet of a campsite? Pickup trucks occasionally have debris fly out the back of them, outlaw them too. Car tires throw lead weights occasionally, no cars.

Instead, how about legislation which requires anyone caught dumping trash to pick up a volume one thousand times that left? Use a truck to dump trash, truck is gone. Leave targets and shells behind after shooting, guns are gone.

I bet it cost more money Fing around with this law, than it would to buy a 10 freaking waterproof video cams, hiding them at a popular dumpsites or shooting spots, and busting some *censored*s. You cannot outlaw outlaws. They don't care.  Legislation like this will do nothing but cost me money and anguish. *censored* the trash dumper really doesn't care about you, the woods, or the law.

[bobcat]

Iceman,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I must have missed the part that said the woods were entirely closed to shooting. It seems to me that a guy can still go out to our public lands and shoot as long as he uses some common sense. As long as you're not endangering lives, damaging property, or leaving trash in the woods, you should be ok.

[ICEMAN]

Sorry, I am menstrating today, and felt like blowing it way out of proportion.....  My bad!

I actually felt so bad    today , I went out and bought a new shotgun.

[bobcat]

Cool! So who got your money? I'm guessing not Cabela's?

[ICEMAN]

Cabelas.

[Jerbear]

Iceman
Say it isn't so.  On your way to pay Shawn,  instead you bought another gun?

[ICEMAN]

Just doing my part to boost the economy! I think I will go do some recreational shooting tomorrow morning.....on state land.....

[billythekidrock]

Cool! So who got your money? I'm guessing not Cabela's?

Damn *censored*s got almost $300 of mine today.

[Bscman]

Bscman, where the hell have you been hiding! Excellent points, well stated, fantastic reality check.

You da' man! 

Hey, I think this is my first real "welcome" to the forum---if you can even call it that. 

Now, if you'll excuse me...I'll go back to try and sort out the leak in my roof that started this last rain storm. 

[griz272000]

does this no shooting mean no hunting ? or just target shooting?

[bobcat]

There is nothing in the new law that prohibits shooting. All it prohibits is shooting within 500 feet of a campground, or other area posted "no shooting," and leaving your garbage on WDFW lands. Also this law only pertains to Dept. of Fish and Wildlife lands. It does not affect other state lands such as those owned by the Dept. of Natural Resources (e.g., Capitol Forest.)

Read the new WAC and it should become clear that this does not outlaw all shooting on public lands as some seem to think. Here's a link and in particular you will want to look at page 10:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/wac232/wac_232-13_adopted_07dec07.pdf

[KillBilly]

You might note that many Maps refer to CF as Capitol State Forest.