Retriever vs. Pointer

[Camo]

Hello everyone, new to what appears to be a great site. Anyway, looking for some advice/recommendations on a bird dog. I will get the bias out of the way first, I am a HUGE Lab fan, but have never hunted over a pointer. My questions are:
A: Will a small to medium size Lab in reasonably good physical shape perform as well in Quail/Chuckar country as an equally fit pointer like a Brittany?
B: When hunting over a pointer and the birds are burried in cover like Russian Olives typical of E.Wash, how do you get the birds out without sacrificing the ability to get a shot? Whereas a flushing dog MAY be able to go in and push them out? Keep in mind, I am not a hardcore bird hunter, it comes second after deer/elk season, however, that could change with the commitment of owning a new dog. I have been looking into a Pointing Lab as my ingnorance to bird hunting tells me a pointing dog is much more suitable for chasing Quail/Chuckar. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[bobcat]

Welcome to the site.  Are you planning on using the dog for duck hunting also? If so, a lab would definitely be a good choice. If not, then you might be better off with a dog that is made for hunting upland birds. A lab just isn't going to cover the ground as quickly or efficiently as a pointing breed will. But, a lab will work for both upland birds and waterfowl. In the thick cover, a lab may have an advantage over the pointer as well, especially when you're hunting pheasants late in the season when they won't hold for a point. But if you're only hunting chukar and quail, I would definitely recommend a pointing breed.

[uplandlabs]

Hey don't worry. You can have the best of both worlds. I have a pointing lab and he is great. He comes from a line of pointers and works birds and points like any of the pointing breeds. Plus he loves the water and retrieves like any other lab. Check out Tiger Mountain Pointing Labs in Ellensburg. They have a great breeding program and also do training. Hope this helps. Here's their URL http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

[Bighorse]

How about I confuse the situation more by throwing flushing dogs into the mix.  I personally really enjoy my Springers for upland and waterfowl and they come in a compact package.  You better hold on when they get hot though.  I like to hunt with my running shoes on!

[Camo]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Upland, I have seen some info on Tiger Mtn. Have you heard anything about Tri-Lab in Tonasket or Suak River Kennels?

[whitey]

Pointing labs are great. I have one I bought from cooke canyon hunt club. He is the best of both worlds. My buddy has a Tiger mountain pointing lab who cant be beat, shes super birdy. Good luck,and great hunting

[uplandlabs]

Camo - Tri-labs has a good reputation. They are small and only do a few litters per year so, you might have a wait. They are way too far away for me but might work for you. I haven't heard of the other breeder you mentioned. Good Luck.

[Houndhunter]

forget pointers and labs, buy a HOUND!!!   

[scottr]

Labs are good if you want to hunt upland (especially pheasant) and waterfowl.  Or look at a Griffon, they can do both too but I hear aren't good w/kids

Chukar, Huns and Quail are best hunted with a pointer like a Setter, Brittany, or German Short or Wirehair.

[Choclab]

If god wanted labs to point he would have given them a stick.....

If you want to have a tank that will work his ass off in the water and do what he is told no matter what....get a lab

If you wanna hunt upland birds.....get a setter

[Skyvalhunter]

Everyone has their opinion, even the different trainers have different thoughts.

[sisu]

All this talk about what dog is best flies like mud on a wheel. Get the dog you personally like and are comfortable with. I thought about a German pointer or a drahthaar,  but decided to get a lab because I like labs, have had labs, enjoy being around labs etc.
I really don't give a hoot what accolades are bestowed on the other breeds because I like labs and that is that. Buy the dog you like, are comfortable with and you'll have a partner that'll go the 100 mile mark for you.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I  agree with Sisu- get whatever breed you want and start bird hunting.  My wife wanted a dog for agility and obedienace shows...now I hunt over a border collie.   
You have to live with this dog for the other 9 months of the year...so you're getting a pet too.

[Intruder]

A.  Yes.  You may sacrifice some early season performance though.  It's important to understand that certain breeds have certain physiological characteristics.  Retriever's bodies retain heat much more than pointers/flushers (Springers) which tend to dissipate heat.  That's why they tend to do better in cold water and why a G. Shorthair can run like the wind in 65 degree weather. 

B.  For alot of the cover in E. Wash a flusher or retriever can actually be an advantage.  We just don't have the huge expanses of cover like MT or some other Midwest states where you can really take advantage of a pointer.  Doesn't mean they won't work well but it's just not the best fit.  The one real exception to this is chukar.  Pointers tend to do really well in the wide open chukar country.... it usually hot too.   

I've seem some others post about versatility.... that's something to to consider.  Retrievers are much better on waterfowl.  The 1 thing that I saw in your post that really makes me think that you should lean to the retriever is that you mention that bird hunting is secondary for you.  Even if you are are die hard bird hunter that dog is gonna be a pet the vast majority of the time.  If bird hunting is truly secondary to you then you'll find the retrievers easier to train, handle, and acclimate to you home.  Not dissing pointing breeds but they are much higher maintenance..... more energy, more training, etc.

[PacificNWhunter]

I agree with the above posts. While growing up my Dad raised retrievers, and I don't know if there is a better dog out there. With that said, I have a Shorthair pointer and love the guy to death, he has been a great friend and hunting partner. But there is something about a retriever you cant get with any other dog. Go with what feels right...JB

[Professor Chaos]

As a lab owner here are my thoughts...
1.  Early season chukar hunting is tough on any dog.  They all need to be in good shape and have lots of water.  If you watch your dog, take plenty of water for them, and dont run them into the ground, they will do just fine hunting chukar.  a well trained pointer might be the best dog for hunting chukars, but a poorly trained or unfinished one has got to be the worst.  I have seen a lot more of the latter.
2.  i hunt in the olives and thick stuff a lot.  A dog on point in the middle of a bunch of russian olives is worthless.  If this is the type of terrain you are going to hunt, get a lab.  The thing that will help you more than a dog in most cases, is hunting with a partner.  i can't tell you how frustrating it is at time to hunt around one side of the trees only to have the birds go out the other. 

I shoot lots of upland birds every year with my lab.  the 06-07 season i was living down on the John day for most of Nov and Dec.  We hunted chukars almost every day. (fresh chukar for dinner    )   Lots of time in the field with lots of birds down.  She probably wont ever be in better shape, or more in tune with how to hunt chukars than she was then.
The key to hunting chukars with a lab in wide open coutry like the J.D. breaks. is to keep them close.  Do not let the dog cross a ridge or into the next draw without being be your side.  When you hunt chukars a lot, you tend to know about where they will be and can work towards those areas. It also helps to really know your dog well and be able to tell their movements and patterns when they start to scent birds. 

[WDFW-SUX]

Give me a pointing lab any day of the week its the best of both worlds IMHO.