Dear Snow Goose Hunter:

[CP]

Anyone else get the “Dear Snow Goose Hunter” card from the WDFW? 

For those that didn’t they are advising that “sky busting” is crippling an unacceptable number of birds and the future of snow goose hunting depends on maintaining strong ethics.  The implication being that they will close snow goose hunting down in Area 1 if hunters do not clean up their acts.

[Ray]

There are a lot of skybusters. But trying to regulate by leveling threats is ridiculous.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Got the same card.  Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of "hunter" who do not know the capabilities of their shotguns.  I was stunned numerous times by people shooting at snows that were easily 100 to 150 yards up....  saw way too many snows get hit in the 80+ yard range and glide a couple of hundred yards.  To even more amazement was seeing the guy who setup in a field near us shoot at swans.    We told the gamie when we got out by the road and he went and talked to them.  I know public hunting is a "zoo" but it has gone beyond that.  Not sure what the fix is,  but people need to be aware of their guns capabilities and their own. 

[Ray]

Yes, but the entire logic of their statement is almost a repeat of why they closed the elk hunt near the skagit. It doesn't take much to notice that. So you can guess who the source of the message was.

In fact the future of goose hunting there depends on population. People breaking the law will be justly punished as they should be. So I would say trying to regulate ethics and leveling threats is really out of the scope of the game department in this example. They need to regulate by law, population of animals and safety. This is now a pattern.

[h2ofowlr]

They only issued those to the known skybusters!  

A lot of geese get shot at just because they fly over ones location.  Many don't leading the bird, so they shoot it in the tail.  At least there is a healthy population of eagles that are well fed.

If they see individuals doing stuff they shouldn't, pull there snow goose cards for the season.  That will slowly elimate those guys.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Ray,  I think you hit it... it is almost an exact repeat of what they said regarding the Elk "Hunt" in Skagit valley. 

[singleshot12]

Should of known this was coming with all the complaints from the bird watchers viewing the hunting and seeing crippled birds. But what is  just as harmful and unethical is the flock shooting that occurs on a daily basis.
I would hope some sort of ethical hunter ed. program be put in place instead of a hunting closure. We finally have an all time record for snows and I would hate to see their population controlled by any other means.
Increasing the limits to trained and responsible hunters is more natural than destroying their nests or spraying them. But unfortunately most anti-hunters would rather have that done than see us hunt them.
 

[sisu]

I've applied for all my cards each year and just can't get my truck to drive west. I know Ray & Pacyew would like but the thought of being around the traffic, people that think 180 deg. from me, I just can't do it.

I love to goose hunt but...

[Fishnclifff]

Anyone hunt the Stanwood areas? Thinkin about hittin it this weekend.
I got my card and haven't shot a goose yet.

[singleshot12]

It's not what it used to be sisu,you're not missing out here on the west side,it's turning into a fiasco, it may be my last year.

[h2ofowlr]

Anyone hunt the Stanwood areas? Thinkin about hittin it this weekend.
I got my card and haven't shot a goose yet.

I wouldn't do it.  Went over there today and it was a packed house.  Elbow to elbow.

[Special T]

10 years ago i Cut my teeth hunting public ground and did pretty good. I had a lot a of drive/ambition a new dog and only a wife, no kids... I love the waterfowl in the area, great hunting. Last year when i put my dog down i gave up hunting ducks, with a couple of exceptions.... Only hunt private land, and would go out in a boat... I once had a "hunter" set up behind me on the dike @ big ditch wearing a camo jacket and Yellow Helli Hanson rain gear bottoms!   I LOVE watching ducks bank into the blocks, but i found i could hardly get the birds working until some A$$ Hat had to shoot his gun or screw things up.... Now I've hunted the refuge at Ridgfield, and that was a pleasurable hunting experience... Only needed chest waders and they had fixed blinds... Killed a few birds and had a good time..

[washelkhntr]

LOL, I got the same one in the mail, I was gonna post it on here and ask you guys the same....but you beat me to it.

[h2ofowlr]

There is one group of guys that hunt the snows just about everyday that have become highly noticed by all for the long shooting, flock shooting and ground pounding.  Most of them are running around in Toyota Pick-ups or Toyota 4Runners.  With the exceptions of one in a new silver Chevy 4 door w/ canopy and tinted windows.  We will see if these particular individuals help ruin it for the group.  I only mention these guys as they now wait until the geese are in the fields and set up on them where ever they are located and pound them.   

[Ray]

Instead of leveling open threats to close the season for everyone the game department should consider if there is a real impact on the population of the game and if there is a safety problem. If it is a safety problem then they can deal with that individually as they encounter it instead of taking the issue with others who are innocent. If it is for game population concerns then we as hunters should be responsible for recognizing that there will be penalty to pay for sky busting birds and wounding too many.

[h2ofowlr]

Ray,
My thoughts are that it's not having a huge impact like stated.  Just some real slob hunting by a small %.  When they are busting the flocks they are sailing a bunch of birds.  Eventhough a grey line on the legal issue they sail 10 ++++ birds in there effort to put 4 on the ground.  You have the gamies and biologist that watch the flock and see all this happening.  Things are being said and after the black eye on the elk deal they are probably prepairing themselves for the similar with the snows.  It seems to keep getting worse.  The land owners do not want them on there property and the groups are building that come out to pound the geese.  It has gotten ugly out there and the geese are getting educated everyday, making it hit and miss for the guys that are still using decoys.  Another one of those legal??  Ethical, no?  Some will argue my statement, but it is what it is.  If you stayed on the same bird and dropped it, then went to the next instead of swing on another bird on every shot, it might follow under the legal.
They may be sending out the letters to forewarn everyone, if it continues we become the escape goats as they will have said they tried to stop it.  Crappy deal.

[Bird_Bagger]

I couldn't agree more that it is out of control. Having lived in Conway all my life and hunted the island just as long I can say it is stupid the way some people act. Besides the unethical hunting, we deal with littering, wasted birds, trespassing and just a shi**y attitudes by some. Now don't get me wrong its not everyone but it seems to be getting worse. We have a field right across from the reserve near Wylie road and had to post it up because the neighbors house was getting peppered every day! Its just crap. Some are going to ruin it for everyone else and its a shame. Hopefully my kid will get a chance to hunt the island, lots of memories to be made callin in birds!

[Special T]

I hate to be the one to say this, but i think private property and hunt clubs are the only future of duck hunting in the skagit valley... Unless you/we can hold people accountable for shooting toward houses, skybusting, littering etc. that will be the only option...     What i want to know is if the biologists and or game wordens see this kind of stuff what are they doing about it? 

[jackelope]

.     What i want to know is if the biologists and or game wordens see this kind of stuff what are they doing about it? 

they are sending out emails that nobody likes...

[Special T]

I guess i left my self wide open for that one!  

[Snowgoose1]

They will not be able to stop skybusting. The same amount of people and probably more do it duck hunting, they are just not visible to most non-hunters. Making a comment that it will go private clubs doesn't mean it gets more ethical. I observed one morning the guys on the dike near Skagit Gun Club hit 6 birds that landed out on the waters edge. I was in field 5 with decoys and ran to the truck and went up on the dike and Jensens to see if any were gone after. Three of the birds fianlly made to the bay edge and got to swimming out. Nobody even went after the birds to try and harvest them. It is not like that with most clubs, but I do see even the other clubs get frustrated and try and get their clients birds. At this time of the season the geese really don't want to look at a decoy spread, they just don't trust it. I do a lot of my Snow Goose hunting earlier in the year when they come in hard. I have also sen farmers wave people in from the road to go out and get rid of the geese. If the people are told to go in and line up in a ditch and the farmer runs an ATV at them from the other side who gets the blame and the ticket? I have viewed several times guys sneaking up on the birds recently and the birds were not letting people get within 50 plus yards to often. I think the ATV incident was too bad.  I think the most important part is to make sure to go chase down cripples and keep an eye on the flock as it flies away. My last 6 limits of Snows has been without a gun. The farmers have thanked me for going in and picking up birds. In fact there are a few places that have posted no hunting, but the people allowed me to walk in and get the birds out of their fields legally and mark them down. I think 15 shell limits will only make people flock shoot even more than they do. Limiting shot size would only cripple that many more birds. I don't know the answer, but I'll bet there is a solution, we just need to work together and with the Game Department. Maybe an off season committee should be made up to work on this with real ideas and solutions.  I have 28 years of notes in hunting these critters and the same thing happens about this same time of year. When the birds are flock hunted they tend to ball up and shut down on decoys. It does seem to have gotten worse every so often lately. I really enjoyed the decoying earlier in the year with all the young birds, but now it's finish with ducks and move on to fishing. Just my thoughts.

[GEARHEAD]

I DON'T

[singleshot12]

Some how the bad apples need to be weeded out and not have the privilege to hunt.
Seems there is a whole new generation of slobs out there,from dip *censored*s to crack heads they are going to ruin it for everyone.
Stricter laws on who gets a hunting licence??

[singleshot12]

But there still is the problem of over population  and them ruining the fields.
There are way too many birds.

[Special T]

I once thought 15 shot shell limits would work... then i went to the samish unit a couple of times and i was proven wrong... I did have good luck at the Ridgefield refuge 25shell limit, established blinds and check in check out.... More accountability..

[h2ofowlr]

I once thought 15 shot shell limits would work... then i went to the samish unit a couple of times and i was proven wrong... I did have good luck at the Ridgefield refuge 25shell limit, established blinds and check in check out.... More accountability..

Ridgefield is hit or miss on most occassions.  I went down and hunted it twice this year.  I used to hunt it a lot when I lived by it.  Now there is a large crowd that hunts for it.  I put in for Sauvies during periods I will be down that way.  Better hunting as you hunt over crops.

[Snowman]

The one major problem is that there is not enough room for the general public. I think they should limit the number of cards handed out to an exceptable amount for the land they have and if you draw one year you can't draw the next. . Also I think they should regulate the hunt clubs and north sound better. To many people and that is why you got the skybusting going on. It is screw the other hunters mentality out there. I would hate to see them close it down, but would love to hear all the complaints from all the idiots up there, even the new biologist. They can't even regulate the quality units. People show up an park in them before they are suppose. One unit has been the same guys all year. They get there around 3am and you can't be parked there till 4am or 4:30. Love snow goose hunting but tired of the 90% idiots that are up there.....

[The Weazle]

The one major problem is that there is not enough room for the general public. I think they should limit the number of cards handed out to an exceptable amount for the land they have and if you draw one year you can't draw the next. . 

So you want to pay for a license, for less opprotunity?  I pay enough, and want the most opprotunity I can get. 

I am glad they did away with the week long permit for the quality hunt as well, as I have been able to get in some fields with decoys and do pretty well.  I think the answer is a split season...say october 15th-december 15th, then january 15th-feb 15th...the days in the field would increase, but the birds would settle down, and maybe decoy better again, and more would be shot, lessening the overall numbers...I will say I havent hunted the dike this year, as I said I would never go back after last year, and from what I hear, its even worse this year!

[Snowman]

Actually in this instance I would rather pay for a less of a chance to hunt them. As the hunter numbers exceeds the capacity of public land and safety. Now you can argue with me but I had my son almost get blown away at jensen due to *censored*'s shooting across cars an the road leading. They were hiding behind other rigs. I've had my windshield totaled with dings in it from idiots shooting where they shouldn't have. And when it comes to this I will argue. NOT ENOUGH ROOM. To many people to make it fun or fair. Would you go hunt elk, deer and bear in conditions like it is up there? HELL no you wouldn't. You know it is all about the carrying capacity of the land with hunters as well as animals. To many card holders. An it don't matter split the season, it will still end up the same period. To me it is the quality not the opprotunity. An what opprotunity is there go watch birds fly high cause some *censored* shots them at a 100yds plus an has given them the best education. There is no quality right now an yes snow goose will get shut down eventually. Every one wants to argue this an that. It is plain an simple to many people equals no ethics in 90% of the people up there. No one cares to busted people chops when they see them do stupid *censored*. But when they threaten to take it away, now every one has a complaint. Oh don't shut it down, poor me. To hell with it, close it. Make it a draw. That equals better quality an conditions to hunt in. Another note I love to snow goose hunt and so does my kid. But we have hardly hunted up there this year due to reason I have stated. We hunt primarly private land but the geese hardly go in them except a few times each year. That place teaches bad habits for kids as well as an example of what not to be. We have had many hunts blown to idiots who wouldn't wait an give kids a chance. Opprotunity doesn't equal quality. I have to agree that to many birds do get crippled.





So you want to pay for a license, for less opprotunity?  I pay enough, and want the most opprotunity I can get.  

I will say I havent hunted the dike this year, as I said I would never go back after last year, and from what I hear, its even worse this year!
[/quote]

[CP]

I think a lot of improvement could be made with some good old fashion enforcement.  Even just increased presence will help.  I’ve hunted that area quite a bit this season and I’ve never been checked; I’ve never even seen an enforcement officer in the field. 

The guys that park early and park multiple cars will stop doing that if they are cited.  Even the skybusters will curb their fire if it brings attention from LE.  I know sky busting is legal but where I learned to hunt, that type of hunting behavior resulted in a routine check by LE, license check, gun check, ammo check etc.  It doesn’t take long to learn if you act like an A-hole you get attention, if you act responsibly you get a pleasant, “good luck and have a nice hunt” from LE.

[Snowgoose1]

Snowman, yes, I wouldn't mind a pay to play as long as people played correctly when it was inacted. CP, I too would like the guys who park early be told to leave and that they can't use the field for the day, it would be hard to enforce, but more than understood from your perception. I also like your idea about about serious skybusters get a visit and thourough check by the Game agent and maybe a comment or two about shooting distances. I know there are guys that shoot at some pretty good distances, but for the guy who dumps box after box not hitting anything. Weazle, I like the idea of a split season or maybe even like eastern Washington Wed/Sat/Sun. Then maybe our season could be longer or they could increase the limit. When I decoy and get birds, it seems like I can get a bunch to come in early in the season. In the early season we often get limits of good quality decoying geese, but then we have to stop. Maybe move the limit up a few with less days. I know not everybody would be happy about three days only, but the guys public and private in eastern Washington have learned to deal with. They could then include holidays and special times being open for a week like they do for eastern Washington. I think it would produce better decoying Snowgeese longer into the season. Some of these ideas that you are all making comments on are great, lets keep it up and maybe a solution can be found.  Yes, I know some farmers really hate them and we have to come up with a solution because we all know what the problems are.

[Snowman]

The less people quality an opprotunity goes up. Easier to manage. I know the wardens up there an they hunt but won't hunt there for all the reason being stated. There is a comprise to be had here and Snowgoose1 do like your idea about making it the same as the eastern side. I know at the rate it is going it will be closed and that would be a great loss to all of us and are children. My son loves to hunt snows, but every time we go up there he comes home crying and calling every one jerks there. I don't blame. It shouldn't be this way an sending those cards out is a joke, I laughed when I got mine, thinking I've not been up there since before thanksgiving. That is not going to stop the unethical hunting that goes on there.

[The Weazle]

Snowman,
Your words are very true, and make much sense...I would love to see quality vs. quantity, ie:  less hunters, maybe a draw...I do not like to pay to play, and have less and less to play with every year, but in this instance, I think your right.

Snowgoose,
I dont think the days of the week would make as much of a difference as a one month off split season...maybe even both, 3 days a week for two months, one month off, maybe from monday after turkey day to Christmas eve or so, and increase the bag limit to 6 or even 7 birds...I know when the birds are decoying well, you can limit on 4 birds in one or two hours.

I think the slobs will get tired of spending money for nothing and eventually figure out that waterfowl isnt their thing...maybe we can hope anyways.

I know enforcement isnt enough though...ever been to welts ponds?  there is a 15 shell limit there, and I have counted 40+ shots from two man groups, and I have never seen a game warden close to that place...its like speeding, if you never see a cop on the road your on, your never gonna slow down...

I hope the snow goose never gets shut down, hopefully the landowners and state can come up with some reasonable approaches to this...

Anyways, good discussion!

[h2ofowlr]

There are more gamies that patrol the island then I have scene anywhere.  I think they all hang out there as thats where all the excitement is.  Besides they get the best show and the most opportunity to write tickets with the huge crowd.
They should just start pulling individuals cards if they break the laws.  As you can't hunt them without a snowgoose permit.

[Snowman]

Yeah well don't count on them pulling cards. The year that they shot across the tops of rigs in the parking acroos the road leading in an flock shooting them on the ground, in the skagit gun club land, We had pictures of them shooting across the rigs an etc. The fact of the matter that my son was right in their line fire, I caught their movement out of the corner of my eye an as soon as I got my son coming back to me they fired. An when asked if they had seen him when my buddies, me and the rest of the guys there cornered one of them, the answer was no, he didn't know he was standing there looking at the geese. Would have blown his head. He was also the first one to shot. They were back out the following week. Got slap on the wrist. They should have been charged with child endangerment an much more.

[The Weazle]

I agree, I have seen many gamewardens on Fir Island, but I have been hunting there for years, and have only been checked when back at the truck, and that was for steel shells and plug inserted in gun...maybe if they got out of their trucks and walked down the dikes, and out into the fields, they could deter some of the slob action...until they do that, they are watching a show and getting paid for it.  I for one can think of many instances where I saw them at the end of the road, and checked people as they walked back to their trucks instead of walking the dyke/field and writing tickets for littering, over limit, skybusting, ground slucing, etc...

[singleshot12]

[quote author=The Weazle link  I think the answer is a split season...say october 15th-december 15th, then january 15th-feb 15th...the days in the field would increase, but the birds would settle down, and maybe decoy better again, and more would be shot, lessening the overall numbers...I will say I havent hunted the dike this year, as I said I would never go back after last year, and from what I hear, its even worse this year!
[/quote]

A split season would be nice,,but there is only one person who would not let that happen and that is the farmer.

[Dustin07]

too bad I missed this exciting thread while I was out of town   I haven't spent much time on the Quality Hunt areas, i've hunted private/permit land and a lot of open public land this year though and I have a few thoughts.

a. I have not seen the gamies enforcing just regular laws. Watching guys in stanwood throw 150 garbage bags in a field and sit on orange buckets LITERALLY not more than 10 yards away from their truck/main road blasting away at geese is rediculous and dangerous.

b. I think that the minimum "2 snow goose look-alike" decoy rule that the Quality hunt fields is good. I have seen a lot of guys who just set up on the dike and blast the geese when they get up in the morning. however, they weren't doing it on Quality Hunt fields, so not sure how you could enforce it.

c. If you wanted to limit who hunted the snows to a more mature, trustworth bunch, you could start with testing, or requiring a little community service time to get your snow goose card each year. I think the pay to play thing is wrong. I think that when it starts to get too expensive for the average guy to enjoy a tradition like hunting, we are going the wrong direction. However, anyone can and probably should volunteer some service time to the WDFW.


also, what is the deal with the guys coming and parking early like CP mentioned? I'm in the dark on that one. I usually get to my snow goose fields almost as early as I would a duck field. Not quite, but close. I did notice that most snow goose hunters seem to show up with their 10ga guns and orange buckets around 9-10am though.