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Author Topic: 8 different special apps pools!  (Read 81306 times)

Offline Curly

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #270 on: January 19, 2010, 08:55:33 AM »
I have never had a problem with our current permit draw system. It gives all a chance at only 4 draws and favors those with more points. There are always exceptions but the odds favor those with more points depending on the type of hunt you applied for. I have drawn both deer and elk and now have few points but I accept the fact that in the current system my odds are less. I think this new permit system and how crazy it seems just really shows that we currently DO have a fair and decent system. "If it ain't broke...don't fix it". I see this as just a cash grab for the state and a system with tenfold the problems they have had in the past or just a HUGE "ClusterFock"....or something like that................Les

Well said.  I agree 100%.

I'm curious how the department plans on supporting this two tag option withthe current status of our herds.  Mostly, the elk are doing fine, though some would argue the Clock and Blues are having some recruitment issues.  The Methow deer population is horrible to anyone that spends any time out there.  No matter what Fitkin says, in order to push his wolf agenda, that herd is in trouble.  They are one step away from catastrophic.  One late spring, one more heavy winter.  This is a whole other topic, but increasing antlerless oppurtunities to try to offset the decreased odds everywhere else is NUTS.  You want to fix the odds, and have this system, go to 2 choices on a permit app.  One antlered and one antlerless.  You get the same revenue, increase odds and oppurtunity. We can all sit here and argue about odds and choices etc. but I think we can all agree this proposal SUCKS, whether you have zero points or 12, a seasoned hunter, or a kid just starting out.

True that.  

I don't see how they can justify any doe tags.......?

Quote
In my opinion the best way to make odds better would be to increase the cost of a special permit application. It's only $5 now. Make it $20 or $25 each. That's still not a lot of money but when somebody starts thinking about applying for 5, or 6, or more different permit categories, it would really add up. And think of non-resident fees... to come up with non-resident fees the WDFW simply multiplies resident fees by 10. So all these non-residents that are applying for our moose, mountain goat, and bighorn sheep tags for $50, would be paying $200 if we were paying $20. So a lot of non-residents would be taken out of the drawings, and also the wives, grandmothers, etc that get put into the drawings just because it's so cheap.

It should be obvious to most that WDFW is not really interested in increasing draw odds........their interest is in making more money off the backs of the hunters...............(unless the WDFW employees all took the same statistics class as Bobcat... :chuckle:)  Just kidding..... :)
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Offline bobcat

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #271 on: January 19, 2010, 09:01:03 AM »
Well, they do need the money. If we don't give it to them, who will? We complain about not enough WDFW law enforcement, but then bitch about having to spend a few more dollars in application fees.    :dunno:

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #272 on: January 19, 2010, 09:03:08 AM »
I'm not sure if you have ever agreed with anything I've ever said Lowe, so I'm not surprised.  You can wait until its in the pamphlet if you want and then evaluate it, or you can discuss it now and try to get it fixed in a good way whatever that way is before its permanent.

Nice numbers by the way.  That is a better picture for sure about where the funds do go.  I'm glad to see some wildlife dollars being spent in the "right spot."  

Offline Curly

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #273 on: January 19, 2010, 09:04:01 AM »
Bobcat, I agree with you about the application fee prices should be increased a little bit, and not a wholesale redo of the way the application works.  The current proposal does suck.
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Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #274 on: January 19, 2010, 09:15:17 AM »
There ARE people this proposal will help in the short term.  Its the guy who has been putting in for cow tags and never bull tags because antlers are awesome, but he didn't want to wait x amount of years, and he does love a good barbecue.  On average he has 4 to 5 points because he has been unlucky at even drawing a cow.   He now has the oppurtunity to be in both draws.  He is also a guy that likes the Westside, Packwod area, but chooses to put in for the Eastside because thats closer to home.  He is not one to utilize the multi season permit.
Why is it better.   He now can apply for 4 choices for big bull and yet still apply for cow.  He has some points, so isn't out of the running.   His bull applications will go Blues, Blues, Naches, and Clock.  He will hunt the general in Packwood if not drawn, hit the Yakima a little just for tradition. 
Why is this worse for him.....he is less likely to draw a cow tag, though his luck has already been poor, because Phool put in for his area where he would like to hunt cows, along with a whole bunch other members with 10 points PLUS.  Because eastside guys can go west, more hunters will flood that way during their seasons, and more westside guys will flood east for our seasons.  Though there is more time in the filed, you will also be sharing with more folks. What else has he impacted on folks....well his name in now in 4 hats for big bull where he wasn't before, with his 5 points. 

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #275 on: January 19, 2010, 09:18:20 AM »
by the way...for the more serious hunters, more time in the field often equates to a higher harvest, an d before too long more restrictions will need to be in place.  You never know westside guys, with all the new pressure to take your branch anltered bulls, you might have to go to spike only as well.  :)

Offline bobcat

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #276 on: January 19, 2010, 09:19:31 AM »
This is why having general seasons with otc elk tags in a state with more hunters than elk, sucks. If they went to draw only for elk, we could all enjoy good elk hunting, for bulls or cows, whichever you wish. You just may only be able to hunt every other year.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #277 on: January 19, 2010, 09:23:14 AM »
If they want to raise revenue................have an application for the high hunt.  ANOTHER $10 permit app.

Jack the prices of the OIL.  It costs money to survey them, take care of them etc.  UP FRONT the cash, draw interest off of the funds while they hold it, and have the fees way higher, such as $1000 or more even for resident.  WAY higher for non res.  RAISE the NR fees to apply or have them purchase a license first like EVERY OTHER STINKING state.  

Invest some money and fight the tribes, and come up with some more equitable harvest from them.  

Sell Wolf tags!   $50 a pop from residents $300 from Non res.  


Offline actionshooter

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #278 on: January 19, 2010, 09:29:30 AM »
If they want to raise revenue................have an application for the high hunt.  ANOTHER $10 permit app.
 


OH JESUS CHRIST, they don't need any help bone, let them think of it on their own...... :chuckle:

 

Sell Wolf tags!   $50 a pop from residents $300 from Non res.   



As a resident, I would be happy to pay more than $50   ;)

Offline bobcat

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #279 on: January 19, 2010, 09:33:49 AM »
UP FRONT the cash, draw interest off of the funds while they hold it, and have the fees way higher, such as $1000 or more even for resident.  WAY higher for non res.

Oh sure... you want me to pay $1000 for a moose tag if I draw it, since you've already drawn yours and only had to pay $100.    :dunno:   :chuckle:

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #280 on: January 19, 2010, 09:34:30 AM »
by the way...for the more serious hunters, more time in the field often equates to a higher harvest, an d before too long more restrictions will need to be in place.  You never know westside guys, with all the new pressure to take your branch anltered bulls, you might have to go to spike only as well.  :)


Easy there big fella....
THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SUCKS MORE THAN EVER..........

Offline Curly

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #281 on: January 19, 2010, 09:43:26 AM »
It burns my ass that they are changing the system.  We've had the system in place for what .......14 years???  I think most people have learned to deal with the way it works.........the good and the bad.  To go and change the way it works now is bad.  If they simply reduced the amount of permit choices a guy had and raised the application fee a few bucks, then that would be something I could support.

Seems the main reason (besides trying to increase revenue) is because of the complaints of people with max points continually not drawing a tag.  Well, tough $h#t.  This is a lottery, and that is the way it works.  Occasionally someone with not many points will draw the Entiat Buck tag or Blues Bull tag.........

The guys with max points will complain about not drawing and get frustrated (and that is understandable) but I doubt that those guys complaining really wanted WDFW to come-up with a hair brained scheme like they are proposing.  I bet they were content to just bitch every year and figure that eventually they will draw.......

One of the main flaws with the proposal is allowing applicants to have all their points in each category.  It would be better to let the applicant choose where his points will go........

And I really pray that they don't let people apply for each side of the State for Elk.  I don't think they said anywhere that they would do that, but if they go by the survey results, the writing is on the wall.
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Offline Lowedog

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #282 on: January 19, 2010, 09:48:45 AM »
I may not agree with you on a lot of things bone because I prefer to form my own opinion.  

I can see in this proposal some things that could be a benefit.  Like I said, I still have a lot of questions about it.

I am not a big fan of a sate wide elk tag.  But from that survey they did it looks as if the majority is.  

I don't think the existing points an applicant has should be put into every pool.  I think we should have to choose one pool of where we want it.  

If more than one hunt is drawn by a single applicant I think they should have to choose the one they want and the other goes to an alternate.  

That is just a few of my opinions on the proposal.  A lot of people right now think the current system is too hard to draw in and at least the dept is proposing a change that the majority of people surveyed supported.  It is at the moment a proposal so maybe with positive input to the right people they could tweak some things that might make it better.  
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Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #283 on: January 19, 2010, 09:52:22 AM »
Quote
If they simply reduced the amount of permit choices a guy had and raised the application fee a few bucks, then that would be something I could support.

THE PERFECT FIX, though they won't see it if it smacked'em in the head.

AS for those complaining about not drawing with max points.  Most don't know much about math and odds.  OIL you MAY NEVER DRAW. PERIOD  As for deer and elk, try a unit that has more than 10 tags and 4,000 applicants.  Once these complainers draw, then they'll never draw again. BUT at least in this state, there is still a chance.  Wyoming Preference.....NEVER

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 8 different special apps pools!
« Reply #284 on: January 19, 2010, 09:53:36 AM »
Quote
I don't think the existing points an applicant has should be put into every pool.  I think we should have to choose one pool of where we want it.   

If more than one hunt is drawn by a single applicant I think they should have to choose the one they want and the other goes to an alternate. 

Both would be better fixes to this proposal.

 


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