Permit Change

[Huntbear]

Until I see how it will work exactly, I am voting not sure.  I just do not understand enough of it, to make an informed decision yet.  Because on one hand it sounds great, but on the other hand, anything the WDFW does makes me suspicious.  Especially, when the money is going into the general fund.

[Bigshooter]

I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.

 The way people have handled their permit choices in the past will be completely different now, IMO. To each his own Bigshooter, you and your buddies are free to continue to apply the same way that you have for ever. I find it hard to believe that if you and your buddies are given free points in additional choices that you will simply not use them, maybe I'm wrong.

I have no intrested in killing an anterless animal.  I have never applied for an anterless permit and most likely never will.  If it were up to me there would be no anterless permits.  And that is my opinion.  All I have been saying is lets wait and see how the draw is going to work exactly before we say this new system is not going to work.  They have given out very limited information on this.

[huntnphool]

Fair enough.

[Dansk]

I think it all depends on how all the other people will apply- that's the wild card.  I think it could swing things either way.  If you are happy with any animal, have above average points, and apply accross the board (including AHE tags), I can see where you might have an advantage. The odds of each pool will def go down, but now I've got 6 pools for antlers instead of 2 (Deer: Prem, qual, AHE, Elk: Prem, qual, AHE) and the same # of points in each pool.

So, more entries in more pools.... makes it better to draw a tag (but not any one specific tag)- is it proportional or more than the increased applications for all pools im applying for?  Hard to tell until we see the breakdown after the fact.

[billythekidrock]

I voted not sure.  I think most of you guys are getting to worked up about this without knowing all the details.  I'm not saying that it won't be bad but, WDFW has given out very little information about how this is going to work.  I will make a decision after I find out all the details.

Hmm. You don't think 8 categories, points distributed across the board or tougher odds are worth getting "worked up" over?

It is clearly stated that those things could happen.

You know for sure that odds will be "tougher".  I don't think they have given us enough information to come to the conclusion that odds will be tougher.  

How can they not get tougher given the scenerio two posts up?

If you want to assume that everyone puts a couple of cow choices down then your most likely right.  And I don't think this is spot on.  I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.  Of all the guys that I know that apply for elk permits every year this would not be the case 9 times out of 10.

How people used to apply no longer matters. It is how they will apply.

On first reaction most I have talked to seem to think they will have better odds since they are eligible to apply for 5, 6 and some even 7 of the cagetories for both deer and elk.

Once they think about how they will apply, and realize that others may do the same, they understand how hard it could be to draw and how important it will be to apply to every category every year just to keep up on points.

Cash cow business model for F&W.

[bobcat]

Dansk,

That's how I see it. It may be easier to draw "a" elk permit, especially for the people with several points, and even more so for those that apply in every possible category. It will just cost more money.

[Bigshooter]

I voted not sure.  I think most of you guys are getting to worked up about this without knowing all the details.  I'm not saying that it won't be bad but, WDFW has given out very little information about how this is going to work.  I will make a decision after I find out all the details.

Hmm. You don't think 8 categories, points distributed across the board or tougher odds are worth getting "worked up" over?

It is clearly stated that those things could happen.

You know for sure that odds will be "tougher".  I don't think they have given us enough information to come to the conclusion that odds will be tougher.  

How can they not get tougher given the scenerio two posts up?

If you want to assume that everyone puts a couple of cow choices down then your most likely right.  And I don't think this is spot on.  I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.  Of all the guys that I know that apply for elk permits every year this would not be the case 9 times out of 10.

How people used to apply no longer matters. It is how they will apply.

On first reaction most I have talked to seem to think they will have better odds since they are eligible to apply for 5, 6 and some even 7 of the cagetories for both deer and elk.

Once they think about how they will apply, and realize that others may do the same, they understand how hard it could be to draw and how important it will be to apply to every category every year just to keep up on points.

Cash cow business model for F&W.

Where have you seen that it says you can apply for all 8 draws.  I know it says that you can draw more than one tag.  But that might only mean you get to put in for two draws.  But can you show mean where it says with out doudt that you will be able to apply for every draw?

[Curly]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html

To address these issues, WDFW proposes to require separate applications for specific types of deer,elk, big horn sheep, moose, and cougar permits and conduct separate drawings in each category.  Specifically, hunters may purchase and submit separate applications for a variety of categories, to include: 1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.  WDFW would then conduct a separate drawing for permits in each category.

Let's say you are a senior, disabled, master hunter........you can apply for 7 of the above quoted permits.......only the youth permit would be out.

[bobcat]

From the WDFW site:

1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.

I could see where a person could easily apply for at least 4 of the categories, and up to 7 would be possible. But you would have to be over 65 years old (senior hunt), disabled, and a Master hunter. That would be 3 of the categories you would qualify for, then the other 4 that anybody could apply for, for a total of 7 applications a person could submit for both deer and elk.

[Bigshooter]

From the WDFW site:

1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.

I could see where a person could easily apply for at least 4 of the categories, and up to 7 would be possible. But you would have to be over 65 years old (senior hunt), disabled, and a Master hunter. That would be 3 of the categories you would qualify for, then the other 4 that anybody could apply for, for a total of 7 applications a person could submit for both deer and elk.

You're right "could".

[Curly]

What happens to the points hunters have accumulated if these changes are made?

Hunters would retain the points they have accrued in years when they applied for a special hunting permit, but were not selected to receive one.  To ensure fairness, these points would be applied to each of the new subcategories created under the new proposal.  For example, if a deer hunter currently has 10 points, that hunter would be credited 10 points in each of the eight deer categories (e.g. buck, second antlerless, quality).  Future drawings would continue to be “weighted,” providing an advantage to hunters with the greatest number of points.

I'll say it again, since I don't think I said it in this thread......... How is it "fair" to credit an applicant his points in each of the eight deer categories?  That is my biggest complaint.  Does WDFW feel they need to pay back the guys who have complained the most for not being able to draw by letting them draw anterless permits?  Makes absolutely no sense to me and seems totally unfair.

[billythekidrock]

I voted not sure.  I think most of you guys are getting to worked up about this without knowing all the details.  I'm not saying that it won't be bad but, WDFW has given out very little information about how this is going to work.  I will make a decision after I find out all the details.

Hmm. You don't think 8 categories, points distributed across the board or tougher odds are worth getting "worked up" over?

It is clearly stated that those things could happen.

You know for sure that odds will be "tougher".  I don't think they have given us enough information to come to the conclusion that odds will be tougher.  

How can they not get tougher given the scenerio two posts up?

If you want to assume that everyone puts a couple of cow choices down then your most likely right.  And I don't think this is spot on.  I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.  Of all the guys that I know that apply for elk permits every year this would not be the case 9 times out of 10.

How people used to apply no longer matters. It is how they will apply.

On first reaction most I have talked to seem to think they will have better odds since they are eligible to apply for 5, 6 and some even 7 of the cagetories for both deer and elk.

Once they think about how they will apply, and realize that others may do the same, they understand how hard it could be to draw and how important it will be to apply to every category every year just to keep up on points.

Cash cow business model for F&W.

Where have you seen that it says you can apply for all 8 draws.  I know it says that you can draw more than one tag.  But that might only mean you get to put in for two draws.  But can you show mean where it says with out doudt that you will be able to apply for every draw?

Have you even read any of it?

And I am pretty sure they will apply for as many as possible. The general population of hunters that apply for permits did the same thing when it went from one hunt choice to four and that made the odds tougher in many units. Believe me, if it goes as they have stated, things will get a lot tougher in many units and in many categories in general.

[billythekidrock]

From the WDFW site:

1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.

I could see where a person could easily apply for at least 4 of the categories, and up to 7 would be possible. But you would have to be over 65 years old (senior hunt), disabled, and a Master hunter. That would be 3 of the categories you would qualify for, then the other 4 that anybody could apply for, for a total of 7 applications a person could submit for both deer and elk.

I have a buddy that is a couple years away from 7 categories and I am eligible for 5.

[bobcat]

But the question that remains is what permits will be in what categories?

[billythekidrock]

But the question that remains is what permits will be in what categories?

I heard 663 late buck would be a "quality" hunt.