Permit Change

[SkookumHntr]

I don't like it.

I'd like it a little bit better if they didn't allocate everyone's points across the board into all categories.  Why not just make the applicant pick where they want the points to go?  Would that make programming a lot harder?

If we are stuck with this system that is the change I hope we can get! At the very least!!

[WDFW-SUX]

YO, Dave where's the Change we can believe in?

[Cougeyes]

Let me get one thing clear with the proposed change (before I vote).  If I have 8 elk points and put in for a bull permit and a cow permit, will those 8 points go into each category... so 8 for bull 8 for cow, and if drawn for say bull will i lose all bull points, but next year would I have 8 cow points still and then 0 bull points or would they both go back to 0. That is if bull and cow were seperate applications? This crap is confusing me.  

[SkookumHntr]

yes, you draw bull, you go to zero in that catagory and would still have 8 in cow catagory.

[billythekidrock]

yes, you draw bull, you go to zero in that catagory and would still have 8 in cow catagory.

And it seems that if you draw both you will lose both but can only fill one permit.

[Cougeyes]

However, if one were to have that many points they may want to think about just putting in for one or the other cause if they draw both in one year they wont be able to harvest both, they will have to choose i'm sure.  This change is going to complicate the already complicated regulations and permits a lot more.  Going to be interesting, can't wait to read the public comments, like to grab a couple beers and read through them, they usually provide for quite a few laughs.

[Cougeyes]

Is this only regarding deer and elk permits/categories or does this apply to all the OIL permits as well?

[bobcat]

Isn't there three categories for both deer and elk? Quality, antlered, and antlerless? For deer I'm not sure what would go in just the regular buck category. Seems most, if not all, deer permits should be either quality or antlerless.

One thing I think they should do, but it's probably not possible, is when they do the draw, if someone is drawn for one category, say the quality deer, then they should automatically be disqualified from drawing any of the other two categories (regular buck and antlerless.) It makes no sense for a person to be able to draw two special permits and only have one tag. I realize there are some 2nd deer tag permits but I'm not talking about these.

[Curly]

One thing I think they should do, but it's probably not possible, is when they do the draw, if someone is drawn for one category, say the quality deer, then they should automatically be disqualified from drawing any of the other two categories (regular buck and antlerless.) It makes no sense for a person to be able to draw two special permits and only have one tag. I realize there are some 2nd deer tag permits but I'm not talking about these.

That is a good idea..........and it probably is possilbe but it would take a bit more time to get the software setup correctly. 

I sure hope that if they do go to some form of what they are proposing that they wait until next year and take plenty of time to get the software programmed correctly and get all the bugs worked out..........I don't want to see redraws and re-redraws again.

[Cougeyes]

One thing I think they should do, but it's probably not possible, is when they do the draw, if someone is drawn for one category, say the quality deer, then they should automatically be disqualified from drawing any of the other two categories (regular buck and antlerless.) It makes no sense for a person to be able to draw two special permits and only have one tag. I realize there are some 2nd deer tag permits but I'm not talking about these.

I agree, because if someone were to draw two permits of the same species, obviously they couldn't shoot two deer so would have to choose either the quality buck tag or the antlerless tag.  I like your point on disqualifying the person from being drawn for the other tag of the same species, that way it allows someone else to draw it. 

I think you're onto something (maybe), potentially helping odds for some people. .......say Tom, Joe, Sally, whomever... has been putting in for buck and doe permits, and has 4 points each, but would rather harvest a buck.  If there were a "disqualification" implemented then that would potentially make Tom only apply for the buck permit and not the doe permit (granted there will be separate applicatons for antlered and antlerless) because he doesn't want the risk of drawing the antlerless first and being disqualified for the buck tag, this may possibly increase the odds then for those that really want to draw an antlerless permit, i think it should be one or the other how it is now, your deer points are deer points (general) I dont like the idea of split antlered and antlerless applications and separate points for each, it will not help the odds.  Those people that really rely on antlerless permits (easier to draw tags) to put food on the table will now (hopefuly not) be faced with less odds of drawing. 

Also, there will be those people that will put in for antlerless tags now, say deer, hunt the general season for a buck and if they harvest a buck that antlerless permit goes to "waste", granted an unfilled tag is fine by me, but it could have gone to someone who maybe would have strictly hunted for antlerless game. 

[WAcoueshunter]

I don't see how we can know whether it will work or is a good idea...we basically have no information about the system, other than they're proposing to (1) divide the tags into eight pools (versus our current five), (2) give us points for each pool, and (3) allow us to apply for each pool.  Do we know which hunts will be in which categories, and how many tags will be given for each?  I'll wait to see the full proposal before I pass judgment either way.

[bobcat]

I agree we don't know enough yet to know whether it's good or bad. I can't figure out what the regular buck permits will be. It seems they would either be antlerless, or quality. Since apparently they're proposing to have antlerless permits, buck permits, and quality permits. What will just the regular buck permits be? Anyway, yeah I don't think we know enough yet to pass judgement. One thing though, where is this "eight pools" coming from? It sounds to me like at least 19 pools altogether:

Deer:

1) buck permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and  8] Master Hunter permits.


Elk:

1) bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and 8] Master Hunter permits.

That's 16, then add in the moose, sheep, and mountain goat. That's 3 more, for a total of 19.

[billythekidrock]

Isn't there three categories for both deer and elk? Quality, antlered, and antlerless? For deer I'm not sure what would go in just the regular buck category. Seems most, if not all, deer permits should be either quality or antlerless.

One thing I think they should do, but it's probably not possible, is when they do the draw, if someone is drawn for one category, say the quality deer, then they should automatically be disqualified from drawing any of the other two categories (regular buck and antlerless.) It makes no sense for a person to be able to draw two special permits and only have one tag. I realize there are some 2nd deer tag permits but I'm not talking about these.

From what I read..there are 8 categories for deer, 8 for elk. If you draw two permits then you get both but can only fill one. If you get skunked on a bull hunt then you could still take a cow if you were drawn for both.

[Curly]

I agree we don't know enough yet to know whether it's good or bad. I can't figure out what the regular buck permits will be. It seems they would either be antlerless, or quality. Since apparently they're proposing to have antlerless permits, buck permits, and quality permits. What will just the regular buck permits be? Anyway, yeah I don't think we know enough yet to pass judgement. One thing though, where is this "eight pools" coming from? It sounds to me like at least 19 pools

I disagree.  We already know enough to know that it is a bad idea.  Just because we don't have the exact specifics on permit numbers doesn't mean that we don't have an idea of what they will be.  I still think almost everyone will apply in every category they are eligible to apply for.  If that is the case, the odds of drawing probably just got a lot worse for everyone. 

The only odds that got better are the odds that WDFW will make more money on the draw.  My initial reaction to the proposal was to say I'm done applying in this state because I was pissed, but now I realize I would only be hurting myself by not keeping up with everyone else.......it really sucks because of the added expense of permit application, but I guess that is the game we have to continue to play.

[Curly]

Ok, for those that voted that they "like it" in this poll, what do you like about it?  And how many points do you have now?

I would suspect that the ones saying that they like the proposal would be the ones with a lot of points since they will be given those points in all categories of that species that you have the points.  The odds of drawing that tag you've been holding out for (entiat, swakane, desert, etc.) have just got worse or at the minimum they have stayed the same.  So, I can't see why anyone would be for the proposed system unless they just like seeing WDFW make more money.