Permit Change

[ICEMAN]

I absolutely agree.

"It is anticipated that the additional revenue would be used to increase hunter access to private property."

"Anticipated" & "additional" are too vague as to determine where and if this money will be used.

I can hear the excuses now. "Well we had planned for the money to be used this way, but we did not anticipate the further downturn of the economy so now the money will go to the general fund".

or

"Additional revenue? There is no additional revenue after we pay for the system upgrades and addtional costs".

I agree, well said!

Or, "we anticipated increased hunter access, but because one hunter hunted unethically, we decided to keep all the monies and close all the newly acquired hunt areas."

[bobcat]

Show me a quote where it says that you will be able to apply for every single draw.  All I have read is there will be 8 different draws, but nowhere have I read where it says you can apply for every draw every year.

From the WDFW info posted on their website:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html

How does the department propose to change the current system?

To address these issues, WDFW proposes to require separate applications for specific types of deer,elk, big horn sheep, moose, and cougar permits and conduct separate drawings in each category.  Specifically, hunters may purchase and submit separate applications for a variety of categories, to include: 1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.  WDFW would then conduct a separate drawing for permits in each category.

[billythekidrock]

     

I voted not sure.  I think most of you guys are getting to worked up about this without knowing all the details.  I'm not saying that it won't be bad but, WDFW has given out very little information about how this is going to work.  I will make a decision after I find out all the details.

Hmm. You don't think 8 categories, points distributed across the board or tougher odds are worth getting "worked up" over?

It is clearly stated that those things could happen.

You know for sure that odds will be "tougher".  I don't think they have given us enough information to come to the conclusion that odds will be tougher.  

How can they not get tougher given the scenerio two posts up?

If you want to assume that everyone puts a couple of cow choices down then your most likely right.  And I don't think this is spot on.  I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.  Of all the guys that I know that apply for elk permits every year this would not be the case 9 times out of 10.

How people used to apply no longer matters. It is how they will apply.

On first reaction most I have talked to seem to think they will have better odds since they are eligible to apply for 5, 6 and some even 7 of the cagetories for both deer and elk.

Once they think about how they will apply, and realize that others may do the same, they understand how hard it could be to draw and how important it will be to apply to every category every year just to keep up on points.

Cash cow business model for F&W.

Where have you seen that it says you can apply for all 8 draws.  I know it says that you can draw more than one tag.  But that might only mean you get to put in for two draws.  But can you show mean where it says with out doudt that you will be able to apply for every draw?

Have you even read any of it?

And I am pretty sure they will apply for as many as possible. The general population of hunters that apply for permits did the same thing when it went from one hunt choice to four and that made the odds tougher in many units. Believe me, if it goes as they have stated, things will get a lot tougher in many units and in many categories in general.

Apparently not the same one that you have read.  Show me a quote where it says that you will be able to apply for every single draw.  All I have read is there will be 8 different draws, but nowhere have I read where it says you can apply for every draw every year.

You are kidding right? I can’t tell if you are purposefully being difficult, just haven’t done the research or both, but if you need a quote then here are a few.

 “Specifically, hunters may purchase and submit separate applications for a variety of categories, to include: 1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.  WDFW would then conduct a separate drawing for permits in each category”.

“Those who are interested in more than one kind of hunt would have a chance of being drawn for each of them. “

“Hunters who draw more than one permit would be able to choose which hunt or hunts to participate in, but would have to stop hunting once they harvest an animal.”

“Department managers are hopeful that these improvements will result in greater customer satisfaction and increase applications for special hunting permits.”   And btw, no one said you could apply for “every draw” as you stated. You can only apply for categories in which you would be eligible. Obviously if you are a senior you couldn’t apply for the youth category and if you haven’t completed the MH program then you couldn’t apply for those as well.

[PolarBear]

I absolutely agree.

"It is anticipated that the additional revenue would be used to increase hunter access to private property."

"Anticipated" & "additional" are too vague as to determine where and if this money will be used.

I can hear the excuses now. "Well we had planned for the money to be used this way, but we did not anticipate the further downturn of the economy so now the money will go to the general fund".

or

"Additional revenue? There is no additional revenue after we pay for the system upgrades and addtional costs".

Hell, they stole the money from wildlife plate to piss away in the general fund, they will do exactly the same with this!  I'm sure that was the plan all along.   

[huntnphool]

Relax BTKR, it was clear a while ago that he didn't read it

[Bigshooter]

     

I voted not sure.  I think most of you guys are getting to worked up about this without knowing all the details.  I'm not saying that it won't be bad but, WDFW has given out very little information about how this is going to work.  I will make a decision after I find out all the details.

Hmm. You don't think 8 categories, points distributed across the board or tougher odds are worth getting "worked up" over?

It is clearly stated that those things could happen.

You know for sure that odds will be "tougher".  I don't think they have given us enough information to come to the conclusion that odds will be tougher.  

How can they not get tougher given the scenerio two posts up?

If you want to assume that everyone puts a couple of cow choices down then your most likely right.  And I don't think this is spot on.  I don't think that it is even close to how the majority of people apply for permits.  Of all the guys that I know that apply for elk permits every year this would not be the case 9 times out of 10.

How people used to apply no longer matters. It is how they will apply.

On first reaction most I have talked to seem to think they will have better odds since they are eligible to apply for 5, 6 and some even 7 of the cagetories for both deer and elk.

Once they think about how they will apply, and realize that others may do the same, they understand how hard it could be to draw and how important it will be to apply to every category every year just to keep up on points.

Cash cow business model for F&W.

Where have you seen that it says you can apply for all 8 draws.  I know it says that you can draw more than one tag.  But that might only mean you get to put in for two draws.  But can you show mean where it says with out doudt that you will be able to apply for every draw?

Have you even read any of it?

And I am pretty sure they will apply for as many as possible. The general population of hunters that apply for permits did the same thing when it went from one hunt choice to four and that made the odds tougher in many units. Believe me, if it goes as they have stated, things will get a lot tougher in many units and in many categories in general.

Apparently not the same one that you have read.  Show me a quote where it says that you will be able to apply for every single draw.  All I have read is there will be 8 different draws, but nowhere have I read where it says you can apply for every draw every year.

You are kidding right? I can’t tell if you are purposefully being difficult, just haven’t done the research or both, but if you need a quote then here are a few.

 “Specifically, hunters may purchase and submit separate applications for a variety of categories, to include: 1) buck or bull permits, 2) antlerless permits, 3) second tag antlerless permits, 4) quality hunt permits, 5) youth hunt permits, 6) senior hunt permits, 7) disabled hunter permits, and Master Hunter permits.  WDFW would then conduct a separate drawing for permits in each category”.

“Those who are interested in more than one kind of hunt would have a chance of being drawn for each of them.“

“Hunters who draw more than one permit would be able to choose which hunt or hunts to participate in, but would have to stop hunting once they harvest an animal.”

“Department managers are hopeful that these improvements will result in greater customer satisfaction and increase applications for special hunting permits.”   And btw, no one said you could apply for “every draw” as you stated. You can only apply for categories in which you would be eligible. Obviously if you are a senior you couldn’t apply for the youth category and if you haven’t completed the MH program then you couldn’t apply for those as well.

Like i have said where does it say you can apply for every draw.  I have read what WDFW has posted.  But it doesn't say if you will be able to apply for all draws that you are eligible for.  How do we not know that it won't be a combination of two of the eight choices.  If they let us apply for two choice they would be receiving twice as much money from permit apps. as they were before.  You maybe right and we will be able to apply for all of the draws that we are eligible for.  But I have not seen where it says that.

[huntnphool]

It does say "a variety or choices" but that does not mean "all", I see what you are saying and could just be another political spin on words.

Anyone with a lot of points though, and given those points across the board, you can bet will be spending the $5.00 on each just to increase their point totals for the time they actually can put them to use.

[Bigshooter]

It does say "a variety or choices" but that does not mean "all", I see what you are saying and could just be another political spin on words.

Anyone with a lot of points though, and given those points across the board, you can bet will be spending the $5.00 on each just to increase their point totals for the time they actually can put them to use.

I agree.

[billythekidrock]

It doesn't matter if it is to categories or 5..it will still make the odds tougher.

[huntnphool]

It doesn't matter if it is to categories or 5..it will still make the odds tougher.

Agreed

[bobcat]

MIGHT make the odds tougher. We won't know until the 2010 draw is over.

[billythekidrock]

MIGHT make the odds tougher. We won't know until the 2010 draw is over.

How can it not make them tougher? If you don't increase the amount of permits or decrease the applicants the odds will never get better. F&W won't increase permits significantly and they definitely don't want less applicants because that leads to less income.

[billythekidrock]

Since it seems that the “categories” will push forward, I am trying to embrace the change  but I still need someone to explain to me how this will improve the odds?

Every year I applied for 4 deer permits on one application for about $5.
Every year I applied for 1 elk permit on one application for about $5.

This year I will probably apply for 16-20 deer permits in 5 categories for about $25 (if the application fee doesn’t go up).

So even if I don’t apply for elk permits the WDFW made at least an additional $20.
If I apply for elk then there are another 16-20 choices in 4 or 5 categories for about $25. (along with everyone else's 16-20 choices for many of the same permits)
If I can afford it, that is an additional $40 over last year… for the same permits.
Multiply that by the amount of applicants and you can see that it is all about money.

In the past everyone had up to 4 choices for deer and 4 choices for elk. Under this plan some could put in for up to 28 choices for deer and 28 choices for elk. Without adding a whole bunch more permits how does this improve the odds?

The only way I can see the odds getting better are if they price most folks out of the permit process or if someone gets drawn for multiple permits and lose all points in those categories.

I would feel better about this if they made us choose one category for our points and the rest start at zero and dropped the choices from 4 to 2.

[uplandhunter870]

i may have missed these points while i was reading the "proposed" changes so heres my two questions.

1. do i have to by an application for each category i wish to put in for? ie. $5 app for big buck draw and another $5 app for a doe draw so my $5 fee from last year just doubled.

2. if if put in for both big buck and doe draws and i get drawn for both do i get to harvest two deer, do i get a transport tag for the big buck and the doe or is the state going to make me choose between the two and what happens to my points in the category of the tag i turned down?

Steve

[Crowns]

You chose between the two unless the doe tag is a "Second Antlerless". You dont turn down a permit though, you get them both. You just make the decision in the field. Thus, losing points for both.