300 win mag loads?

[Intruder]

It was very unexpected.... I was quite shocked when I first chrono-ed it.  While longer than average my barrel at 27" isn't super long.  Not sure why I'm getting those speeds.  My experience in the past has been pretty much around 3100-3200 w/ maxed out 180s....  RL-22 and H4831.  Maybe its the TSX bullet??  RL-19 is faster burning but you'd think 22 or 4831 w/ a 27" barrel would produce as good.

[PacificNWhunter]

I use a 165 grain custom load from Hornady. I know it's a little "light" but I have had great success with deer and bear with this load. It shoots very consistant with my gun.

[wapitislayer]

I have always used 76.0 gr of IMR 4831 with a 165gr Nosler partition. This load always seems to shoot well in my ruger and bullet drops less than 180gr. The Ft LBS of energy from what I read seems to be more than 180gr when you get out at farther ranges

[dbllunger]

Ok..Just ran those on my Oehler program.  Based on my chronographed speeds of 76.0 of 4831 = 3275fps/165gr, and a max load with the 180 going 3150fps.  I used the same bullet (Partition) and a MPBR with 6" kill zone.  The 165 passed the 180 in trajectory at 200yds and was 7" higher at 500yds.  Energy wise the 165 passed the 180 at 34yds, and was 500lbs more at 500yds.  Everything aside there is some benefit in SD with the 180, but I would use what ever one grouped the best in my gun.  These speeds are all reloads.  Factory is substantially less.  I tested three different 180 loads in two different 300wm's (Savage, Tikka) last fall.  The fastest was 2900fps and the slowest was 2800fps.  To me 250fps is a big difference, but to you it may not be. 

[bobcat]

Where the 180 with its higher ballistic coefficient may have the most advantage is in the wind drift category. Do you have the ability to calculate wind drift numbers? My guess is the 180 will do much better than the 165, and when you shoot at long range, wind is very hard to judge and compensate for, whereas bullet drop is easy if you have a rangefinder. One more point...energy really is a meaningless number, at least in my opinion. The 180 will potentially penetrate more than the 165, and that's what matters. I'm not saying the 165 isn't a good choice, just that I wouldn't necessarily say it beats out the 180 grain bullet. Of course the most important factor of all is how well a particular bullet groups in your rifle.

[mossback91]

Nosler Partition.  The ONLY hunting bullet I have EVER had fail was a 160gr 7mm Speer Grand Slam.  I gave it the benefit of the doubt the first two elk, but the third time was enough proof.  All elk were recovered, but just pencil holes all the way through like a FMJ.  All were dbl lung broadside shots at 150, 100, and 250 yds.  One required a second shot, one two more, and the last one took a total of four (Entire gun capacity) before falling down.  The last one took four dbl lung shots in a pattern of about 6-7 inches, and then finally just layed down and died.  7mm STW at 3300fps. 

Weird Ive seen them kill the *censored* out of elk and deer.

[dbllunger]

Bobcat...yes you can calculate wind including degrees to the wind.  I covered all the issues of penatration with my SD comment.  As bullets with higher Sectional Density will normally out penatrate lower SD bullets even if they are at a lower velocity.  In regards to higher BC the 180 is slighty higher then the 165.  Heavier bullets always resist wind deflection more then lighter bullets velocity being equal.  Long range shooters prefer heavier bullets if they group well over lighter bullets for what you mentioned.  I would disagree with energy is meaningless as it is critical to proper penatration and bullet expansion.  I did not try to advocate one bullet weight over the other, but just printed out what the program said.

[GoldTip]

dbllunger, that Oehler program must have a sweet spot for those 165gr bullets of yours.  Cuz I've used your same numbers you've given a 180gr TSX at 3150 and a 165gr TSX at 3275.  My program I have at home gives the same numbers as the program at realguns.com. Both of those programs with a 6" MPBR give the 165gr at 28.5" low at 500 yards and 1601 ft lbs of remaining energy.  The 180gr TSX is 29.1" low at 500 yards and has 1867 ft lbs of remaining energy.  The program at Real guns shows for a 165gr TSX to have 500 ft lbs more energy at 500 yards than a 180gr TSX you would have to be starting the 165gr bullets at 3900fps, versus the 180gr at 3150.  There seems to quite a imbalance here?

[Intruder]

Bobcat...yes you can calculate wind including degrees to the wind.  I covered all the issues of penatration with my SD comment.  As bullets with higher Sectional Density will normally out penatrate lower SD bullets even if they are at a lower velocity.  In regards to higher BC the 180 is slighty higher then the 165.  Heavier bullets always resist wind deflection more then lighter bullets velocity being equal.  Long range shooters prefer heavier bullets if they group well over lighter bullets for what you mentioned.  I would disagree with energy is meaningless as it is critical to proper penatration and bullet expansion.  I did not try to advocate one bullet weight over the other, but just printed out what the program said.

I agree with the general premisses outlined here with the exception of the higher SD = better penetration.  I see that you do qualify it as "normally" though.  Based on the research I've done, SD is extremely hard to quantify in any objective terms related to performance.  While there is a certain amount of accuracy to the statement I think it has to do more w/ the bullet weight than the SD.  Generally speaking bigger cal bullets w/ more mass are going to have a higher SD.... so there's certainly a relationship.  IMO, in terms of overall terminal performance in hunting situations bullet construction is a more critical aspect for penetration if we're not talking about radical velocity or weight difference. 

Some what nitpicking I guess 

[GoldTip]

Running a Nosler paritition bullet comes up with virtually the same results as I posted above with the TSX bullets.

[TheKid#10]

I shoot a Browning A-Bolt with the extended 26" barrel in 300 Win Mag and I really like Federal Premium Vital Shok 180 gr. Nosler Partitions for a factory load. But it's all about what your rifle likes to shoot too. 180 gr. Noslers are tough to beat though.

[dbllunger]

GT...man I hope I did not read the wrong trace.  I will go verify the data I put in and also run it on my Pact Chrono to see if the data is wrong.  I hope not but will check and verify the data.  Going to check it right now.  Will get back to you shortly.

[dbllunger]

Ok..here is what the PACT said.  I could not down load the Oehler program on this computer.  Will check the Oehler data a little later.  6" MPBR with Partition.
165@3275 = -27.4"/2165fps/1718lbs @ 500yds
180@3150 = -28.9"/2199fps/1933lbs @ 500yds
I would guess I either entered or did something wrong with the Oehler program.  Will check it later and report back. 

[dbllunger]

Thanks for the question on the data.  I Found the problem...I had put down a different drag table on the 165 that converted the BC from .410 to over .600 when it went to the graphs.  I then corrected it to the correct drag table and it graphed the correct BC.  Here is the new data the Oehler program showed.  Same bullets, velocity, and MPBR size, but slight difference in elevation and temp.  I will make sure to check twice next time.
165 @ 500yds = -25.6"/1863lbs
180 @ 500yds = -26.8"/2072lbs

[GoldTip]

Sorry to question your figures, but I have always found that the 180gr bullet carries around 10% more energy than does the 165gr when you get out around the 500yard mark.  I saw your data and thought maybe I'd been reading mine wrong all this time! LOL.  Anyway, glad you figured out where your calculations went wrong.