Alert: SB 6813 - WDFW Elimination

[TWG2A]

It's encouraging to see the letters from the legislators.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been sending this out to all of my groups, which include several thousand members here in WA and they're sending letters to express their objection to this piece of..... "legislation".

Life will be a *little* better when this session has closed, but as you all know....... These things will keep rearing their ugly heads. No matter how many times we beat them.  The gun-grabbers are just waiting for that one opportunity and they'll keep trying.  Net session it'll be called something different or it'll be hidden in some "crisis" related bill.

[sisu]

I've been sitting on this discussion & thinking. I finally came to this:
Once a septic gets filled with too many big chunks it does not function as intended, so we either pump it or dig it up and replace it with something that works. Maybe it's time to replace a system that quit doing what it is supposed to.
I have to discuss this with some friends some more but right now how bad could it get? Think about this, the guy that says he is a lobby for sportsmen is actually a PAID lobby for Washington State commercial fishermen.

[Special T]

The only good that could come of this is that the WDFW pulls their head out! I am skeptical about the right thing being done regardless of if a merger happens. I can see the benefits from a fiscal standpoint... The fact that we hunters and fisherman get shorted is what needs to be addressed...More accountability is the only thing that will move us in the right direction. 

[whacker1]

Sisu - you make a good point, but I have another comparison to add to yours.

If one septic gets filled with too many big chunks and quits functioning, you either pump it or dig it up and replace it with something that works - but in this scenario, we would be taking a septict tank that is full of big chunks, and quit working some time ago.  But we have continued ramming the big chunks in, and now we are going to dig next to it a larger hole and cram our septic tank that is not working into an even larger septic tank that is also not working.  But to make it better, we aren't going to cut any new exit ports in the septic tank, no new drainfield.  Same big chunks stuck in an already full, but larger septic tank.

I hope that illustrated my point and messed up some of your lunches at the same time.  I know many of you are visual, so you are trying to visualize the big chunks stacked on top of each other trying to get out. 

[luvtohnt]

I am a bit confused, I have been reading this thread but haven't formed an opinion yet. Why exactly are we the sportsmen going to take it in the shorts as so many people have stated?

Brandon

[whacker1]

assuming this passes.  DNR would control the funds, responsbilities, priorities of the WDFW.  Not sure if you are a fan of DNR, but they aren't known to be the most efficient department in the state, and is currently controlled by a fairly liberal elected commissioner.  The WDFW appointed commission would be disbanded, and would no longer have the ability to hire or fire the director of WDFW, because they would no longer be around.  So, accountability to the commission on behalf of the director goes away.

Although, we don't all like WDFW, I don't feel like they are the least effective department in the State of WA government.  And they have a very large challenge in front of them.  And at times they do actually act on input from sportsmen (which is sometimes good and bad), but the point is that we actually do have some input in the process.  That input would be far less than it is in our current system.

Last point, because I am critical of government.  I have seen very few government bodies that have ever gained efficiencies by combining departments, without first cleaning house on the duplication.  There only intention in this merger is to -combine real estate offices, which is a very small percentage of their direct overhead.  Their direct overhead is heavily weighted in people.  There is no elimination of duplicated positions, no elmination of excess layers of management, no empowering of the staff to make decisions outside the meeting environment, reducing the need for management.   This is a polical shell game or game of three  card monty.  Very similar to the national health care.  They haven't addressed the actual core of the problems by fixing health care, tort reform, pharma problems, etc.  The majority just wants to give more people health care - talking about the 30 million that don't have health care instead of fixing the root of the problem.  This is much the same.  They aren't going to actually talk about why DNR or WDFW or Parks are inefficient, but going to combine them, because one department surely must be more efficient than 3. 

Could it work? Yes.  Is it remotely likely to work? No.  The legislature (more importantly the governor) needs to address staff in State Government to gain efficiencies.  The legislature & governors keep adding requirements on their departments, which require more bodies and meetings, and very little gets accomplished.  No one is empowered to make decisions, so anything that changes requires 25 people to meet over the course of the year.  It is a self perpetuating problem. 

The last is a graph from wa depart of employment security.  Tell me how this make you feel about efficiency and ability to operate an efficient business.  see attached graph

[sisu]

The plus from my stand point:
1. Head guy for DNR is elected. If that person does a poor job with F&W that person has to be re-elected.
2. Putting two dept. together (especially government) gets overly inflated egos all inflamed & paranoid. This leads to a turf war which leads to dept. heads leaving where duplication occures.
3.  During the re-structuring process the public can start demanding a greater part in the input side, because we all know this transition is not going to be smooth. There will be lots of bumps, and Goldmark has a huge ego that does not welcome critism well. I see him wanting the public board the to be his "SSR  air bag".

[whacker1]

1. agreed on elected, but keep in mind King County, Pierce County, Thurston County, and Snohomish County elect the majority of our elected officials on state wide issues
2. turf war will happen for sure - which doesn't help efficiency, typically makes things less efficient during the transition, and they usually replace department heads with folks that think the same way the winner of the turf war does.
3. I hadn't thought about the fact that he might want the sound board to be in place to take the brunt of the public pressure.  That might be, but the bill in the senate actually calls for the removal of the wildlife commission.

[Shootmoore]

The plus from my stand point:
1. Head guy for DNR is elected. If that person does a poor job with F&W that person has to be re-elected.
2. Putting two dept. together (especially government) gets overly inflated egos all inflamed & paranoid. This leads to a turf war which leads to dept. heads leaving where duplication occures.
3.  During the re-structuring process the public can start demanding a greater part in the input side, because we all know this transition is not going to be smooth. There will be lots of bumps, and Goldmark has a huge ego that does not welcome critism well. I see him wanting the public board the to be his "SSR  air bag".

Here is the issues I look at to this.  #1 the Head of the DNR is elected, are you happy with the government leaders that have been elected by the voters of Washington State?  Do you think we will get a hunter or fisherman elected or an environmentalist?

Secondly when the WDFW used to be the Department of Fisheries and Department of Game, I would say there management for each was much more focused and efficient.  How has the merger of those two agencies in the the WDFW worked out for us?  Do you think that merging them, with Sate Parks and DNR  who have 3 totally different focuses create better focus on game fish and game animals or less?

Personally I would say split them back in to the Department of Fisheries and Game cut alto of the fluff out of the top levels and let them individually focus back on what they were orig ionally designed for.  When an agency gets to big and tries to do to much they loose focus on what the original intent was in my opinion.

I can almost guarantee that Fish production would be more efficient if all they did was fish.

I can almost guarantee that if all they focused on was game animals  they would be more efficient.

Bigger is not always better when you loose focus of the goals (IE where WDFW is today).

Shootmoore

[Kain]

My concern with a "Game department" is that non game animals would be managed by DNR.  While this might be a good thing for most wildlife can you imagine DNR in charge of wolves and other threatened and endangered species?  How could Department of game manage anything if they had no control over an animal like the wolf?  And would DNR use these animals to control the other department anyways?  I just dont want the same agency that runs the "Parks" to run Fish and Game.  Better to fix what is wrong with the current system.  IMO

[Shootmoore]

My concern with a "Game department" is that non game animals would be managed by DNR.  While this might be a good thing for most wildlife can you imagine DNR in charge of wolves and other threatened and endangered species?  How could Department of game manage anything if they had no control over an animal like the wolf?  And would DNR use these animals to control the other department anyways?  I just dont want the same agency that runs the "Parks" to run Fish and Game.  Better to fix what is wrong with the current system.  IMO

non game animals that fall under the preditor class ie coyotes, racoons, wolves etc should fall under the wdfw.  DNR could have the 2 toed yakima powder hog, greenbacked seattlelite tree rubber and the west side fur toothed sloth.  What is happening now is sections of the WDFW are using these animals to control other parts of the WDFW. 

Shootmoore

[woodswalker]

My note to TPTB:

Do NOT merge WDFW, Parks and DNR

As a Lifelong hunter and angler in Washington I have watched with dismay as the WDFW has consistently drifted from the original mission. I am VERY dedicated, I teach NRA certificated firearms classes, WDFW Hunter Education courses, hold a Master Hunter Permit certification from WDFW and make it my business to introduce someone new to hunting, fishing and the great outdoors EVERY YEAR.

A bit of history; The old Department of Game was merged with the Department of Fisheries to create the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, an indication that the agency would – and many complain has – gradually drifted away from the primary mission for which it was created, to serve hunters and anglers and to conserve, protect and enhance fish and game populations. Perhaps instead of merging the WDFW, it ought to be broken up and restored to two separate agencies: Fisheries, which would be tasked solely with managing for commercial and tribal fisheries, and the Department of Fish and Game, whose job it should be to put ten million more trout into our lakes and streams, produce two to five million more steelhead, produce and allow to spread 10-15 million more salmon, increase the deer herds by 50,000 and add 10,000 more elk, and that’s just for starters.  Our once great Pheasant hunting, that rivaled the hunting in the Midwest, is scarely worth buying the ever more expensive stamp for.

I dont want to see WDFW eliminated, I just want it to be run far differently than it is now. We hunters and fishers should be partners with the WDFW but as below states, they have consistanly turned their back on us. Need I remind you of all of the times the WDFW was either neutral or proactive in eliminating hunters rights?  

Continually raising the cost while providing less and less opportunity to us hunters and fishers.  Eliminate hound hunting for cats and bears, with the now attendant problems.  Eliminated bear baiting.  The commission eliminated dogs for coyote hunting all on its own because it had become "socially unacceptable".  Where was the WDFW when our most effective tools were eliminated for trapping?  WDFW continually and consistantly chooses predators over hunters for wildlife management.  The wolf plan is prime example of this.  Creating a lop sided wolf commission to choose wolves over hunters, not considering hunting as way of wolf management.  And it is only thanks to State law and the U.S. Constitution that we are allowed to carry a weapon for protection while archery hunting.  Not making enforcement officers the number one priority has led to rampant poaching, trespassing, and other outdoors abuses.  These abuses have closed most of the roads and timber lands to driving.  I can't take my young nephew and my dad hunting anymore because they cant walk miles into gated areas.

Please vote against this ill-considered bill which would create a Mega-agency which would be even LESS responsive to the needs of the hunters and anglers than WDFW has proven to be.  It would also eliminate the Fish and Wildlife Commission which was created by a vote of the people to provide a citizen commission with the authority to govern the agency that makes decisions on the fish and wildlife resources of this state. Elimination of the commission and its authority to hire and fire the director to guarantee that fish and wildlife management would be both directly responsive to the public and insulated from political pressures.  As is the case in states around the country, the Commission process was designed to assure that the interests of long-term conservation would not be compromised for short-term political ends.

This bill would reverse referendum 45, passed in 1995 by A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, a common theme right now in Olympia and would further damage the future of the state's wildlife and environment. In addition the bill does not SHOW any real savings garnered out of the $10.5 million in operating budget of the WDFW.

Thank you,

[Kain]

 
I also added this line to my letter.

I also see that all the funds dedicated to fish and wildlife programs are in danger of being absorbed by this colossal new bureaucracy.  We sportsman gave this money and agree to these increases in good faith that they would be used for conservation of our fish and game animals.  Using this money in any other way would be theft against the citizens of this state.

[woodswalker]

I also added this line to my letter.

I also see that all the funds dedicated to fish and wildlife programs are in danger of being absorbed by this colossal new bureaucracy.  We sportsman gave this money and agree to these increases in good faith that they would be used for conservation of our fish and game animals.  Using this money in any other way would be theft against the citizens of this state.

and I sent another poke with this:

Another concern that I have, I also see that all the funds dedicated to fish and wildlife programs are in danger of being absorbed by this colossal new bureaucracy.  We sportsman gave this money and agree to these increases in good faith that they would be used for conservation of our fish and game animals.  Using this money in any other way would be theft committed against the citizens of this state.

I say this in light of the monies taken from the ORV dedicated funds, the monies taken from the Wildlife License plate fund and other dedicated funds that have been raided already in an attempt to prop up the budget shortfall that our governor insisted that we did not have when she was elected.

The number of baldfaced grabs for funds astounds and truly dismays me.

Thank you,

[Kain]

Love it!