Reloading question

[Rickyrebar]

 I have purchased a RCBS reloading starter kit. Bought all of the dies needed for my firearms.
I have purchased a few of the bullets that I have used with my factory ammo (Nosler Ballistic Silvertip, Nosler Ballistic Tip.
The factory ammo I have been using is Winchester XP3 & XP2.
I have been saving my cases from the aforementioned factory ammo. All I need (I think) in the way of components to go forward, is propellant, primers and recipes.
My RCBS kit came with the Speer Reloading Manual #14, I also bought The ABC's of Reloading 8th Edition.
I am reloading for the following... 300 WSM, 30.06 SPG, 308 WIN.
And the stupid question is...
Using the salvaged Winchester cases and the new Nosler bullets, I would like to basically reproduce (or improve) the Winchester loads I've been buying off the shelf.
Everything I have read on the topic of reloading stresses to adhere to the "reloading manuals" when it comes to developing loads.
The Speer Manual, does not list the specific components (brand names) that I have acquired i.e. the Nosler (brand) bullets with the WIN cases. It does list the 760 propellant (which is the Winchester brand).
The load data listed in the Manual (using 300WSM 180Gr. as an example) shows 61.0gr of 760 powder as a starter load, with a max load being 64.0gr.
But when you go to the Hodgdon reloading data center web page... (Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com) it lists the following information... 59Grs. of the 760 power, not to exceed 62.5 Grs.
I can't seem to find a manual or reloading data that will direct me going forward with the components I have.
Can I simply use the Nosler bullets with the WINNY cases get some 760 powder & WINNY primers and go for it?

[Huntbear]

You can get basic reloading data for Nosler components from the Nosler website. 

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15

Next go buy a Nosler manual.

[Red Dawg]

i would go buy the nosler #6 book and the hornady #7 book. Between those two they will give you the all the info you will need. Unless of course you decide to use barnes bullets. You will find that all of the sources out there will give you different info for loads so I would stick with the brand of the bullet load information.

[Rickyrebar]

So the brand of the bullet dictates the type of powder...

[Red Dawg]

no not at all but I typically follow what the manufacturer specs out in there manual for that particular bullet. You dont have to that but that is what I think most do that are just starting out.

[Ray]

Go with the Nosler suggestions in your case. I have always noticed the difference between the Speer and Nosler recommendations. I always try to adhere to the actual bullet manufacturer's recommendation. If they don't provide a brass or primer recommendation. I usually go with Federal which in most cases seems most forgiving if there is not a primer suggestion. I also might look at the case wall thickness on different brands of brass. I usually go with Remington or Winchester brass.

Bullets of the same caliber may be slightly different in length or shape and it could affect pressure.


On Primers

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm

Changing brands but using the same type of primer will also usually result in pressure changes, but ordinarily these will be less drastic. In the A-Square tests the pressure spread between the CCI 200 and the hottest standard primer (the WLR) was 9600 psi. The spread between the mildest magnum primer (the Rem. 9 1/2M) and the hottest magnum primer (WLRM) was 8300 psi. These are significant pressure variations that cannot safely be disregarded.

[hunterofelk]

Check and cross reference many manuals.  Once you have decided on a load with the bullet, powder, case and primer, test your powder weights by 0.5 grain increases.  If in your test groups you see the groups opening up or imprints from the bolt head stop and decide if this is what you want.  Remember the bullet and powder companies worked up a load in their test rifle.  Your rifle might not like the load they came up with.  If you get to the max load listed in the Manuel and it works well with your rifle, try using a chronograph and see if the velocity is what the Manuel listed.  In my experience the manuals print higher velocities than actual.

[Rickyrebar]

Good stuff guys thanks. I will look into Nosler's data. It makes sense to me that the bullet manufactures data would be the one to follow.

[C-Money]

Glad you are getting a Nosler book. Good to use the same book brands as the bullet you are shooting. With the 3 cartridges you mentioned, you may want to look  at  IMR-4350. W760 is good, but you may find IMR-4350 is about as good as you can get for those 3, especially the 30-06!

[bobcat]

I've loaded lots of Nosler Partitions and Nosler Ballistic Tips and have never owned a Nosler manual. The data from other manuals will work fine. You will just want to start about 10% below the maximum charge shown and work your way up in 1/2 grain increments. I've always used Hodgdon powder and I use their manual. I do have a few others now, and I always check the free data available online, but don't think you can't reload without having a Nosler book. For your 30/06 your best Hodgdon powders are going to be H4350 and H414.

[Ray]

Be careful. Some loads in the manuals for my calibers are 4.5 grain differences. For example between Nosler and Speer I have noticed three loads which suggested minimums that were right around or over the other's max load. All with the same powder and bullet weights were the same. It doesn't hurt to know when you are potentially treading into dangerous territory. I wouldn't be so bold as to say one manual is good enough as another in every case.

[Rickyrebar]

Looking at the chart on Nosler's site, they reference Load Density, what is that?

[Ray]

If I recall it is a measurement regarding how much powder fits in the case for the given load. Some people recommend around 80-90% density being optimal.

[bobcat]

Well, in many cases the Nosler manual may not have data for the powder you want to use, so your next best choice would be the manual from the powder manufacturer. Use the data for the same weight bullet and you should be fine. Starting 10% below the max charge, for example if it was 58 grains, you'd start at 52 grains and work up until you see pressure signs or get to the maximum recommended charge. One time you really need to be careful is with monolithic bullets like the Barnes tsx. These bullets, having no lead, are longer than a conventional bullet of the same weight. So with the increased bearing surface, pressures could be higher and you need to use data specifically for that bullet, or just be sure to work your way up carefully from at least 10% below the maximum listed powder charge.

[KillBilly]

Also, cases differ in volume. some have thicker walls, some have thicker/heavier head material, etc. Military/Nato brass typically has less volume than Win/Rem/Lapua/etc brass.
Having said that, load density will differ from case brand to case brand.

My Weapon - Tikka T3 Lite
My 300WSM Loads - 180 gr Nosler-Accubond -- 65.5gr of  IMR 4831 using GM215M primers

Groups 3 rounds touching at 100 yds.

[Huntbear]

Looking at the chart on Nosler's site, they reference Load Density, what is that?

Load density refers to the % of case filled with powder.  As was said above, most prefer about 90% load density.  Which means  your case is 90% full of powder.  I have loads that are 98% and the bullet seats right down on the powder.  No, it is not a Max load.  Just the type of powder I am using.

[Bofire]

 :)bullets of the same caliber and weight can be different shapes, have different amounts of bearing surface, hence different pressures.
good advice here, as a novice I say: go slow, read a lot, be positive what you are doing, double check everything.
You are gonna love this hobby!
Carl

[KillBilly]

Looking at the chart on Nosler's site, they reference Load Density, what is that?

Load density refers to the % of case filled with powder.  As was said above, most prefer about 90% load density.  Which means  your case is 90% full of powder.  I have loads that are 98% and the bullet seats right down on the powder.  No, it is not a Max load.  Just the type of powder I am using.

Again, 90% is dependant on the case being used. As stated earlier, different cases have different volume and 90% in a Lapua case may equal 90 + % in a Nato or federal case.

[Huntbear]

Agree totally Killbilly.  Was just giving the simple answer to the question.  Did not want to confuse the reloading newby. 

[cwuwildcat]

Is there a reliable way to determine how much of the cases volume is filled by powder, and is the volumne measured from the web to the bottom or top of a neck on a bottle neck case?  I'm guessing that you would fill a case with powder, take it's weight, and then do the math to determine the amount of grains for 90%?

[Huntbear]

Actually, use water.  then weigh it.

[cwuwildcat]

Is it considered filled at the top of the case, or at the top of the shoulder?

[C-Money]

I think a case is full at the top of the neck, flush with the top! This is also a compressed load. I dont load anything that I need to compress. You can get in to compressed loads with slower powders in small cases.