Should there be a AHE

[wackmaster]

What does everyone seriously think.Should there even be a AHE ,or should they open seasons and pemits to the avid hunter.Is it realy fair that AHE should be able to shoot 2 elk when most avid hunters do not even get one.I do not have an AHE card and I am not hunting Illegally.I think the AHE is unfair.There is hardly even any cow pemits given out on the eastside.I say do away with the AHE and open more oppertunity to other people.That is just my opinion.What do you think.

[steeleywhopper]

 I do think that AHE is fair, only because they have given anyone who is willing to put in the time a chance at the extra's. If they chose certain people without giving everyone a shot at it, only then would I think it unfair. It is too bad that background checks and past legal issues were not part of the program earlier. Now we are in a situation where a problem needs to be fixed rather than being able to avoid one.

[billythekidrock]

I think there should be.
The intention of putting people that are willing to go the extra mile in learning, passing up and helping others is good, especially in areas that are populated with people and critters.

But I don't like the fact that people that have already done the work and passed the tests are being kicked out for things that did not eliminate them in the beginning. I also think they should be grandfathered in, and then take the new tests/classes when it is time to renew. If you screw up in between time, then your out.

I also see this as the begining of something bad, like making the hound/depredation hunters and trappers required to do AHE or background checks.

[Cougeyes]

I think there should be a AHE program, but have it better managed.  I absolutely do not agree with issuing two tags to AHE hunters if they successfully kill one cow. The units such as 3911 need to be reduced.  I do not agree with hunting in areas that are nowhere near areas where the tags should really be used (such as farmlands).  Granted elk move from place to place, but how is one to know whether they are targeting the problem animals if they are hunting nowhere near a problem area?  I think this is a way for the state to reduce the elk population which, in the past was their target.  They need to reduce the number of AHE hunters, up the qualifications or "checks" and increase the cooperation with landowners who have problems.  THe landowners with problems are the main reason why this program was instrumented in the first place. 

[Slider]

I say NO!!!No one deserves to harvest two Elk when others go hungry. If they need to have a damage hunt they need to have a state wide draw. Any one that has an unfilled tag should be included!!!

[rackattack]

I agree with Slider.  If they need a damage control, then let them choose a random person out of the unsuccessful general hunters.  Just another good reason to get those reports filled out on time.  Maybe then we wouldn't have to wait until August to see the harvest stats.

[wackmaster]

I  some what agree with what your saying but will it change.Also what if a person does not have the time or know what days they can take off for testing.I had bought the packet and studied and could not get time to take the test.When I called the WDFW they wanted more money for another 90 days.That's BS I have to take a day off work and make an appointment and lose a days pay witch I can,t afford.I don't know maybe a bad experience, or maybe I am crazy. I understand thinning herds,land damage,and all that stuff.Two elk a year isn't fair.Also 6 guy's night time hunting in tampico shot a 5*6 bull elk and one of them were a master hunter.The are all getting convicted.I have also heard about some master hunters dumping bales of hay to bait them in on to property that is open to AHE hunter.

[tmike]

What does everyone seriously think.Should there even be a AHE ,or should they open seasons and pemits to the avid hunter.

So if you eliminate AHE how are you going to define an Avid hunter? Run background checks? Just playing devils advocate here. Sounds to me like they are trying to change the way it has been for hopefully the better.

Also 6 guy's night time hunting in tampico shot a 5*6 bull elk and one of them were a master hunter.The are all getting convicted.

How can you make sure the other 5 who weren't AHE wouldn't fall under the definition of  avid hunter. I think it's pretty complex. The idea is to improve land owner relations so the Average hunter isn't continually locked out of good areas like they are now. AHE, no AHE, landowners are tired of being crapped on! Instead of hearing about what is wrong now or what somebody did, let's here some ideas to make it better.The first thing I think should happen is to manage our wildlife for biological reasons not political ones. What do you think?

[ICEMAN]

Hell, I wouldnt mind if they did a background check on all hunters. Too many guys with warrants are hunting each year. Currently, DFW is licensing illegals, Felons who have no gun rights, etc... I am not saying to deny any guy with a bit of a past from hunting, but to weed out those not allowed to possess, but chose to anyway... Warrants bug me...want them dealt with before guys hunt....show some responsibility...

I know, I am an ass. I also do not relish the idea of another layer for wildlife to screw up either... but hell, they already will not knowingly issue tags  to deadbeat dads....why stop with them.....

[wackmaster]

OK I don't know if the other 5 were even hunters.The master hunter was the one who shot the elk.I would say the avid hunter is the one who buys a hunting license like you or I.How are AHE hunters improving landowner relations buy breaking the law.You want ideas to make it better ,OK let's get rid of the AHE program and any hunter that what a chance to hunt a damage hunt that has not been successful should have a right to harvest an animal.I pick up trash,turn people in breaking the law,I shoot my guns and go to 3-d shoots alot,I do my best to help conserve nauture and the wild.Does that make me any less of a person or hunter.I do not need a card to show people that I am a ethical hunter.Nor should I have to to get equal hunting rights.I agree that we should manage our wildlife better but how can we when every thing is so screwed up.This problem is not just about hunting.alot of it is about money and politics.Maybe our Governor should stop worring about different law to make money and worry about other issues in the state.

[tmike]

Obviously the law breakers aren't helping anyone AHE or not. I think you missed my point. Look I'm not defending the program, I think it needs to serious revisions. Honestly I did the program to increase my opportunities because I don't know any landowners that give me access to great hunting in this state. Same reason I leave my options open on the weapon choice I use.

I pick up trash,turn people in breaking the law,I shoot my guns and go to 3-d shoots alot,I do my best to help conserve nature and the wild.Does that make me any less of a person or hunter.

Hell No! I do the same thing. Does it make me less of a person or hunter because I went through the program?

[ICEMAN]

.....I pick up trash,turn people in breaking the law,I shoot my guns and go to 3-d shoots alot,I do my best to help conserve nauture and the wild.Does that make me any less of a person or hunter.I do not need a card to show people that I am a ethical hunter.Nor should I have to to get equal hunting rights.

I totally agree. Nothing splits up hunters more, than one group getting an advantage over another group. In my opinion, (unless you have violated major laws in the past) I think that all hunter groups should have equal access to our beloved wildlife resources. Personally, I think that the AHE program makes alot of snottynosed hunters out of normal guys.

[klickriverchromer]

who needs master hunters to thin herds, thought the indians were good enough at ruining animal numbers. 

[Ray]

I think the concept of a program is ok. I like the idea that people have incentive to invest their time and effort to wildlife conservation and or hunting.

[Head-shot]

who needs master hunters to thin herds, thought the indians were good enough at ruining animal numbers. 

Ha ha ha, lmao, stoke that fire man  

[wackmaster]

tmike good discusion

[kirkl]

Not dogging the west side guys but seems like thats the most of the people that are complaining and you want to get rid of it and go to damage permits. You think there actually going to call you on the west side then wait for 2-3 hours while you drive over here to the east side to some farmers field cause there in there "right now" just so they can be "fair" to everyone. Lets use a little common sense. And ya im a AHE card holder and didnt get an elk this year, not from lack of trying. And ya they let us shoot two but how many do you think actually shot two.

[robodad]

Maybe the second one should be donated to the food pantry, It would level the field a little bit and put food in those who would otherwise go hungry !!   

[Crunchy]

I'm an AHE member.  Havent had the chance to use it, but mainly cause of lack of time.  I put in for a few of the permits but havent been drawn.  I, unlike many dont put in for Toutle or Margret but just my AHE tags.  I'd rather hunt with close friends and maybe shot a big bull, then hunt alone in Toutle or Margaret.  I like the program, but it could use change or two. 

[tmike]

Here's an idea. Make it a true Master hunters program. Only people with 40 years experience in the woods and hunting can apply. How many of us can truely say we are Masters at anything. Reward the people that got us into the sport.

[Crunchy]

Just what we need a bunch of gray tops hunting from their trucks.

[ICEMAN]

Surely you jest. Old timers who had an eternity to hunt deer thru October, shoot any bull elk, had a "doe day" every year, cold claim gunny sacks of razor clams, fish for salmon and ling and just about any other species nearly unregulated. No points to earn, minimal tag fees... I am not in the mood to give special priviliges to guys that already had it.

[tmike]

OK so you don't like my last idea. How about the second AHE 3911 cow tag has to be a sponsored tag that goes to a disabled hunter. Who better to shoot an elk off a hay bail in the middle of an Alfalfa field. And please don't say "great, that's all we need, a bunch of disgruntled disabled shooting my elk", or "they get benifits why should we give them that too!" come up with some ideas, get creative.

[Crunchy]

Make 3911 Archery only.  That would make it more of a challenge.  For me if I did fill the 2nd elk tag it'd be for meat.  Half my elk went to the rest of the camp, some to the in-laws doesnt leave alot.  I really dont want to walk out to a field and shoot on 10 minutes later.  No pain no enjoyment.

[tmike]

That would be ok, but the land owners who I know won't allow archery because they want them Killed, Now. Some areas are condusive to archery. Sage and alfalfa aren't. At least for me.

[ICEMAN]

I am always in favor of youth or disabled getting the privileges.

(What ever happened to that blind hunt that wildlife had....? Come to think of it, nevermind, I do not want to know. )

[high country]

howdy guys, sorry I missed this one.....snows been kicking my butt.

OK first and foremost the only people the ahe discriminates against is those who have been caught being dirtbags in the past, and those who have not completed a hunters education.....so to me it is rediculous to say the program is un fair.

youth and disabled hunts are surely a possibilty in some areas, but most areas open to damage hunts are on private land. I am currently in a season that is a damage hunt and MOST of the hunt area is well within 300yds of peoples homes. we are only allowed to use limited range wepons. I would NEVER allow a youth to be shooting his gun that close to my house.....period. I want only people who have gone the extra mile and even then I would be nervous.

there seems to be a bunch of people that think the damage hunts are about hunters getting elk. the fact is the hunt is about elk being kept away from private land. elk are hard on crops and fences. I suppose we could raise the cost of a license and tags to $700 and kill the program off, we could then just pay the farmers for their damage......how does that sound?

coments like mikes about the 40 years to be a master is pretty rediculous, heck old england thought the the world was flat till young columbus proved them wrong, bad expierience equals bad habits....time in the woods might teach you alot, but who's to say it is leagal or applicable to hunting in someones backyard.

the idea of a limited draw.....imagine if you just burned your points on a depred hunt and found that it was cancelled for any number of reasons....how pissed would you be? you would demand your points back....right? that happens to ahe every year.

one thing I would like to see is the 3911 boundrys changed. it seems pretty stupid to have the state park included in the hunt area and then site guys for hunting there. I bet those guys get off in court or the area gets modified.

I would be in favor of increased fines for ahe violations of any blatency. I can understand a guy shooting a critter a couple minutes early/late.....clocks vary, but to shoot an elk on private land w/o permission should be a huge fine/loss of equipment.

[Ironhead]

Surely you jest. Old timers who had an eternity to hunt deer thru October, shoot any bull elk, had a "doe day" every year, cold claim gunny sacks of razor clams, fish for salmon and ling and just about any other species nearly unregulated. No points to earn, minimal tag fees... I am not in the mood to give special priviliges to guys that already had it.

Pretty harsh on the seniors Iceman, You feel your more deserving than a 75 year old man or woman that has a hard time getting around in the hills. Some still have the passion but don't have health on their side, I think they are more entitled than alot of others. I hope your not making the rules when I get old. 
 

[tmike]

Just trying to brainstorm some ideas here high country Sheesh!  Mostly what I've heard in all these AHE threads are whats wrong not how can we fix it. At least you had some ideas. How about the program is so well run that when an alfalfa hunt is available disabled or kids get priority, when it's an urban hunt, hunters that have seriously proven primitive weapon proficiency get priority. On all the other damage type hunts the hunters need to be cycled through. In other words if I shoot a cow, you and everyone else would at least get a call offering the chance, if you can't make it you go to the end of the line. Now I'll go get my bullet proof undies on and wait for the flack! 

[ICEMAN]

Pretty harsh on the seniors Iceman, You feel your more deserving than a 75 year old man or woman that has a hard time getting around in the hills. Some still have the passion but don't have health on their side, I think they are more entitled than alot of others. I hope your not making the rules when I get old. 

To be honest with you, I have seen a few too many elderly folks in the hills who should not even be there. I have seen poor shots taken from guys who could not see very well, trucks in ditches from guys who couldn't negotiate the roads due to poor depth perception and slow reflexes, game not pursued after the shot taken, and game wasted and left behind by guys whos knees or hearts were so bad they gave up.    ***Even young healthy guys who behave like this as well.

Earlier I did not really finish my point, I will try here...My point was; that many of the older generation had great opportunity in the past, and I do not feel that they should continue to reap the benefit of a shrinking state resource, when at the same time we are trying to encourage the youth to begin hunting.

You use the word "entitled" in your reply. No one is entitled to wild game.

Back to the topic, If landowners are really all that concerned about the deer and elk wrecking their places, and if we are going to allow them to be killed "immediatley" maybe wildlife should just do the deed, and donate the meat to charity, keep the hunters out of it all together. Then the hunter groups will stop griping about each other and can focus all of our grief on DOW. 

[dbllunger]

Ice....I am totally amazed at your post in regards to seniors.   I have never really disagreed with your posts, but this one is way off base.  I agree with some of the things you say, but when looking at the totality I feel you are way off base.  How could you even begin to think it is acceptable to take away a persons true love and enjoyment because of some arbitrary decision by another.  I have seen young hunters (under 30) do more stupid/illegal *censored* in the woods then any other age group hands down.  I'm not going on a permanent dislike of what you say as this is simply a area of great disagreement.  Don't take offense buy I feel you are way off on this.  I am sure there are more reasons and explanation as to your feeling and solution, but I felt like like I wanted to reply now.  Thanks

[M_ray]

Ice, I am sure you will feel differently some day. Are you saying you won't have your same passion for the sport and wish to continue doing it as long as you can? I know I will, and right now I can get after it but some day I will welcome the chance to take a poke at a cow elk out of the barn window!

And what better opportunity For youth, disabled and Seniors than the second AHE tag ... that's the best idea I have heard yet.
I think the boundary's need to be changed if they are going to call it a damage hunt how much damage are elk doing on their traditional wintering grounds near the Ginko forrest for instance?

[M_ray]

Another thing Ice you are assuming that everyone who is old hunted their whole life. Take me for instance I am 44 and I started hunting when I was 30 didn't I allready miss some of this great opportunity you speak of?

[Ghost Hunter]

I'm 54, my memory must be what I'm losing first, cause I sure don't remember getting most of the benefits Ice is referring to.  Course maybe I'm not close to being an old timer   My mind says I'm not, and my body may die trying.   Somehow I had the impression the AHE was for promoting hunting and sportsmanship, not splitting the ranks.  Hate to get a sour taste before I even go thru the program.  Getting to be where it's tough to give something back to society, without getting a raft of c##p as to your intentions are, or who deserves what   

[ICEMAN]

Dbllunger, sorry if I offended, (I will probably get a bunch of guff about it, but...)  I am not for taking away someones access or privilege of hunting. I just think that if we have some situation where a special group of hunters are needed to take out some game, than I would rather this "special hunt, damage hunt", whatever...go to young or disabled type hunter, not to a senior hunter who has most probably had many opportunities over his/her life. IE: Some 70yr old guy who has 40 bulls notched in his rifle, really doesnt need the gravy hunt of shooting a cow standing on the otherside of a barbwire fence.

M_ray, good point, not all senior hunters have hunted, didn't consider this in the equation.

Ghost Hunter. From what I have seen and read, AHE is a great way to help hunters gather or refine skills and knowldege about the outdoors, wildlife and hunting. Nothing wrong with that. But, apparently some of the foks who have passed the requirements, have taken advantage of their designation and wandered outside of the "boundaries" of what is considered ethical or legal. Probably only a fraction of bad apples in the crate...

I am guaranteed to lose this arguement, sort of like suggesting we change the pay out on social security for seniors. Real Popular Discussion. (Let the ass whooping begin!)

[M_ray]

Iceman, no A$$ whooping here and it's more of a debate than an argument. But I will agree with you that I would like to see the youth and disabled get first priority. The youths are our stewards of the future and we need them to fall in love with the resource as we have and have great first experiences to back that up. And lets face it you and I have a great advantage over a disabled person ... so you see we can come to an agreement of sorts! 

[mossback91]

Iceman, no A$$ whooping here and it's more of a debate than an argument. But I will agree with you that I would like to see the youth and disabled get first priority. The youths are our stewards of the future and we need them to fall in love with the resource as we have and have great first experiences to back that up. And lets face it you and I have a great advantage over a disabled person ... so you see we can come to an agreement of sorts! 

Yeah soemtimes youth get discouraged when they cant get a deer not saying thats what its all about but it helps create the love for it. I know and hunt with a disabled hunter and he is at a major disadvantage but still wont get the disabled hunter permit. I sort of was a disabled hunter this year not terrible but it changes the whole game plan alot.

[dbllunger]

Ice.. totally agree with youth having these hunts, and to offer them to the disabled, and then to the senior hunters.  I have mentioned it numerous times, but WDFW does not listen or want to put the effort into it.  I personally know a few AHE hunters.  I am not impressed as to the type and overall quality of hunter of the few I know.  One is a stud hard core hunter, but the others I would not go hunting with.  Nice guys but not my idea of what I want to represent as the "premier hunter" of any state.  I have talked to numerous peope and the written test is not very applicable to true hunting situations or hunting in Wa..  What do you expect from the current direction of the WDFW, and the direction it will always take with a Democrat for governer. 

[Slenk]

Just what we need a bunch of gray tops hunting from their trucks.

I take ofence of your remark I am one of those gray top you are refering to and I DAMN SURE DO NOT HUNT FROM MY TRUCK or anyone elses truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I probably have been hunting longer than you have been alive!!!!!!!!!
POD at your remark!
Slenk

[Slider]

WOW!!! I just had to check my Browser!!! I thought I was at M.M...........................lol

[high country]

Just trying to brainstorm some ideas here high country Sheesh!  Mostly what I've heard in all these AHE threads are whats wrong not how can we fix it. At least you had some ideas. How about the program is so well run that when an alfalfa hunt is available disabled or kids get priority, when it's an urban hunt, hunters that have seriously proven primitive weapon proficiency get priority. On all the other damage type hunts the hunters need to be cycled through. In other words if I shoot a cow, you and everyone else would at least get a call offering the chance, if you can't make it you go to the end of the line. Now I'll go get my bullet proof undies on and wait for the flack! 

the "take a number" approach could work.......BUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both. most land owners with elk problems want the elk gone, but don't want to be pestered at 5am every saturday....it's a tough answer no matter how you look at it.

[tmike]

WOW!  I spend all day trying to get over the pass and look what happens. A pretty complex situation, if it's to be done right. Great game huh?

[billythekidrock]

BUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both

They already have that in some locations.

[high country]

BUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both

They already have that in some locations.

true, but the huntmasters are volunteers. if we revamped to require youth on fence side "A" and general hunters on fence side "B" there would need to be a representative of the dept to make the calls and decisions. you cannot depend on voulenteers to be there every day of the season.

[brutus1]

Here is my 2cents on this AHE.I've been hunting since I was 10 I'm now 46 been in the AHE since 95 or 96.With all the gripping going on here why don't you people join up and have a voice?I have not used any of the AHE hunts but I might.There is alot of bad apples in the program now, but not all of us are.So throwing ROCKS AT ALL OF US is not right.I don't JUDGE U SO DON'T JUDGE ME FOR BEING A MEMBER.IF YOU ARE A PERFECT HUNTER THAN MAYBE THIS PROGRAM IS FOR YOU. THAT IS ALL I GOT TOO SAY ABOUT THIS..

[popeshawnpaul]

Wow, you are right Slider.  Or, we could just move it to the politics section...  I appreciate both sides of the issue.  This seemed like a program I was interested in a few years ago, then I decided to go back to bowhunting.

Shawn

[Ghost Hunter]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=feb0808a

Is this optional or required?  Certainly would be a road trip for me.

[tmike]

Those are just informational i believe.

[bearhunter59]

Well, it looks to me like those are optional meetings, and I hope they are, because I already am scheduled to be out of town, on business, both of those days....guess, I better give mr. wisner a call and be sure...