collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)  (Read 7404 times)

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 38427
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, NWTF, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« on: February 20, 2010, 08:15:08 PM »
WOLF RECOVERY, POLITICAL ECOLOGY, AND ENDANGERED SPECIES
by Charles E. Kay

Charles E. Kay has a Ph.D. in wildlife ecology and is adjunct professor of political science at Utah State University and a Research Fellow for the Independent Institute.

The federal government and environmental groups who would like to see wolves returned to the West under protection of the Endangered Species Act (ESA) claim that the public supports wolf recovery, and that science is on their side. The former director of the National Park Service, for instance, was quoted as saying that "there is little scientific basis for most objections being raised to wolf reintroduction" (Fischer 1987:30). Others contend that "half-truths and misrepresentation of facts continue to thwart" (Miller 1988:5) wolf recovery, and Defenders of Wildlife has said that people who oppose wolf reintroduction are "aggressively anti-science" (Neal 1992:A8). Are wolf proponents right? Or are there aspects of this issue that they have purposefully overlooked?

I am committed neither to having wolves in the West nor to keeping them out. I am committed, though, to science being used responsibly in policy debates, something I have not yet seen with wolf recovery. My analysis indicates that the federal government and other wolf advocates have taken liberties with the truth, with science, and with the Endangered Species Act.

NUMBER OF WOLVES
Far and away the most important aspect of the wolf debate is how many wolves we are talking about 100? 300? Or 2,000? The number of wolves is central to any discussion of whether predation will limit ungulate numbers, whether hunting might have to be curtailed or eliminated, and how much livestock depredation might occur. When Defenders of Wildlife first began to lobby for wolf reintroduction, they talked of "35 to 45 wolves" in all of Yellowstone Park (Randall 1981:31). This was echoed by an early National Park Service (1975:5) report, which said, "the final numbers [of wolves] that would winter within the park and be compatible with other interests on adjoining lands are expected to range between 30 and 40 wolves." Now plans call for 10 wolf packs totaling approximately 100 wolves in Yellowstone.

In 1987, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service finalized its recovery plan for wolves in the northern Rocky Mountains as mandated by the Endangered Species Act. Besides Yellowstone, the plan addresses wolf recovery in northwest Montana and central Idaho (see Figure 1). According to that document, if a minimum of 10 wolf packs breed in any one recovery area for three successive years, the wolves in that area are to be downlisted from endangered to threatened status. When at least 10 breeding pairs have been maintained for at least three successive years in all three recovery areas, wolves are to be completely removed from the Endangered Species List. While the wolf is listed as either threatened or endangered, hunting and trapping are not to be permitted except by agents of the federal government who may remove individual wolves that prey on livestock (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 1987).

farther into the page Dr Kay says:

"The government proposed 100 wolves in each area, knowing that the numbers would not be enough to meet ESA requirements of minimum viable population size, and environmental groups did not object, knowing that 300 wolves would raise less political opposition than 1,500 to 2,000 wolves. Wolves arrive and increase to 300. The government moves to delist. Environment-alists sue and win. The wolf population is allowed to reach 1,500 or more. Environmentalists are happy, the federal agencies are happy, and the public realizes—too late—what has happened."

Read the full story:
http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolfreport.htm#LIVESTOCK

______________________________________

USFWS Rocky Mtn Wolf Recovery Plan:
http://washingtonwolf.info/NorthernRockyMountainWolfRecoveryPlan-1987-USFWS.pdf

US Forest Service FEIS (canus lupus):
http://washingtonwolf.info/Canis lupus-fs_fed_us-2010 (2).pdf]http://washingtonwolf.info/Canis lupus-fs_fed_us-2010 (2).pdf]http://washingtonwolf.info/Canis lupus-fs_fed_us-2010 (2).pdf

Washington Draft Wolf Plan:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wildlife/management/gray_wolf/draft_plan/05oct2009_draft_plan_deis.pdf

RE: Wolf Numbers
The original USFWS plan calls for 100 wolves in YNP, 100 in NW Montana, and 100 in Central Idaho. (check it out for yourself)
Also see the recovery areas mapped on page 23 of the USFWS Recovery Plan. This wolf recovery effort has changed considerably from the original bill of goods that was sold to the people.

RE: Historic Wolf Distribution
Please see the first 3 pages of the USFS FEIS. The Rocky Mtns were previously occupied by canis lupus irremotus, however canis lupus occidentalis was transplanted into Idaho and YNP by the USFWS which has many conservationists in an uproar since occidentalis is a larger sub-species and has reproduced rapidly, most likely contributing to the permanent demise of irremotis and the demise of naturally colonizing wolves from southern Alberta and British Columbia due to being bred by the larger northern wolf occidentalis. Man has effectively introduced a larger predator un-naturally to the Rocky Mountain landscape.

Please see the map showing the original distribution of canis lupus irremotus on page 2 of the USFWS Recovery Plan. Canis lupus irremotus lived in eastern Washington and the northern Rocky Mtns. Now please see the first 3 pages of the USFS FEIS. Canis lupus fuscus inhabited the Cascade Mountains of Washington. Now it seems that natural colonization by Canis lupus columbianus is occuring from southern British Columbia into the northern cascades by wolves naturally migrating across the border.

Since natural colonization by Canis lupus columbianus is occuring in the cascades where Canis lupus fuscus was the native sub-species, this raises an important question. Should humans (WDFW) interfere with this natural cycle by translocating the larger northern canadian wolf canis lupus occidentalis which is now migrating northwest toward eastern Washington from Idaho and Montana. Any translocation of wolves from Eastern Washington to the Cascades or Olympics could introduce the larger canis lupus occidentalis which would likely be a more efficient predator and breeder than the native Canis lupus fuscus or the naturally colonizing Canis lupus columbianus from southern British Columbia?

For these reasons and many others, Eastern Washington, the North Cascades, and the South Cascades / Olympics should be managed separately. One recovery area should not be dependent on another recovery area for delisting or for translocating non-native wolves. Canis lupus occidentalis is a non-native  sub-species and man should not artificially introduce this larger wolf to new areas of Washington which have never been inhabited by this larger wolf which was unnaturally introduced into Idaho and YNP.

Please see the recovery areas mapped on page 23 of the USFWS Recovery Plan. Also read pages 31 to 38 of the USFWS Recovery Plan and view page 43 paragraph 54 of the USFWS Recovery Plan. The original wolf recovery areas were based on remote areas with 300 squre miles (50 miles x 60 miles) of no more than 10% private ownership with little human population or livestock ranching and those remote areas should be surrounded by buffer zones. I would like to submit that Washington's remote areas that are actually suited for wolves according to the USFWS Rocky Mtn Wolf Recovery Plan are very limited. Many areas of Washington are unsuitable as areas for wolf recovery and the potential for interaction with humans, pets, and livestock is too great if any of the listed options in the Washington Draft Wolf Plan are approved.
(see suggested wolf distribution on pages 42-43 of the Washington Draft Wolf Plan)  

Wolf recovery does not have to occur overnight by translocating non-native larger sub-species of wolves in Washington. Responsible wildlife managers should want the most natural colonization possible by wolves in a manner that is compatible with Washington's human densities and livestock based rural economy. This natural colonization is occuring by at least two different sub-species of wolves in seperate areas of Washington. Instead of considering unnatural translocation of wolves, wildlife managers should be considering buffer zones and management actions to keep wolves compatible with available wolf habitat, thus insuring a much higher level of public acceptance of wolves.

(please let me know if any of you see any discrepancies in the materials provided)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 08:30:26 PM by bearpaw »
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 10:30:41 AM »
Great information Bearpaw, I guess where wolves are concerned anything goes when it comes to introducing them.

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 25030
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 08:26:49 PM »
Hmmm Bunny hugger's moving the goal posts after the fact.... I would Never believe it!
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 38427
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, NWTF, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 08:58:17 AM »
When you look at the process that has taken place, it's no wonder there is distrust. :yike:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline Sporting_Man

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 287
  • Location: Tukwila
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 11:06:57 PM »
Politicians do not amaze me, neither do idiot wolf friends.
However, I can't understand biologists - scientists, that can bend facts and reality in order to satisfy their side, or earn a paycheck. Science has no sides, it should be a fact driven force...

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 38427
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, NWTF, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 11:34:37 AM »
What I have learned by studying all this wolf stuff is that all these scientists use facts in their "Abstract". Then they write their opinion (supposedly based on the Abstract) in their "Conclusion".

Then all the special interest groups like to promote the scientist's opinion in his "Conclusion" if it matches their agenda.

This is the way it appears to me, I am not a trained scientist, please correct me if I am wrong.:twocents:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 08:35:55 PM »
You are right on the money Bearpaw!

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 38427
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, NWTF, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 08:40:35 PM »
wolfbait, you have been reading through all the studies and documents too haven't you....

Pretty interesting looking at what the groups on both sides of this argument pull out of these papers. Both sides can take exerpts and use to their advantage.  :chuckle:

Just as many politics in the scientific end of it. :twocents:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw needed) for spring bear, fall bear, bison, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, & wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 25030
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 08:52:53 PM »
I have a Marketing major from CWU and when i was there a dept was wanting  to change they way they provided serves. they had all kinds of data to support their needed change... Experiments at CWU, national trends, Tracing $$$ on campus. ANYONE WITH A BRAIN WOULD SAY DO IT! They wanted to hire me and some other students to "Verify" their conclusions. I told them it was a waste of money.  :twocents: They hired a prof Marketing firm and paid $30k to tell them what they already knew.... CYA management is what Gov bureaucracy is all about.... If GOV is involved you have to take 99% of the risk out of a decision.... A good business man NEEDS to make a decision with 60-80% of the info available.... A statement backed up by Colin Powell when he was Dept of defense/ biography... If it look like a duck and acts like a duck it is... Unless your the state and have to have a DNA sample to proof it!
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9187
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 09:23:38 PM »
wolfbait, you have been reading through all the studies and documents too haven't you....

Pretty interesting looking at what the groups on both sides of this argument pull out of these papers. Both sides can take exerpts and use to their advantage.  :chuckle:

Just as many politics in the scientific end of it. :twocents:

Sure both sides can twist anyway they wish, but the USFWS manufactured evidence, in other wards they lied in order for the wolves to fit their plans, Proven facts. This wolf introduction is full of crooked deals with the USFWS and Defenders of Wildlife. The only state that has tried to hold the USFWS to the original plan is Wyoming. By now I am quite sure Idaho and Montana wished they would have done the same.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 01:01:54 PM by wolfbait »

Offline KillerMiller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 360
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 10:05:18 PM »
What I have learned by studying all this wolf stuff is that all these scientists use facts in their "Abstract". Then they write their opinion (supposedly based on the Abstract) in their "Conclusion".

Then all the special interest groups like to promote the scientist's opinion in his "Conclusion" if it matches their agenda.

This is the way it appears to me, I am not a trained scientist, please correct me if I am wrong.:twocents:

A scientific paper should have an abstract (summary of the study), introduction, methods, results, and conclusion (discussion).  If the author has an opinion it should be based on the results. :twocents:  Just like the Pro and Anti groups studies are frequently used to further their agenda.  However,  if you break down the study into the methods and results you may see their agenda. :twocents:

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 25030
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2010, 10:21:42 PM »
The whole reason for 1 study is base in fact for an agenda... When you take common sense and a stack of studies like the ones Wolfbait has provided you get the truth... That was the whole reason for my stupid story. Most of the time when the GOV does a study they already have the "facts" they wnat you to prove!  :bash: Some times they make sense... most of the time the don't.  :bash:
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline duckmen1

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2547
  • Location: outdoors
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 10:05:51 AM »
just another way to ruin deer and elk hunting
Maturity is when you have the power to destroy someone who did you wrong but instead you breathe, walk away, and let life take care of them.

Offline mathews_shooter4life

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 25
Re: Original USFWS Wolf Plan & Wolf Facts (supporting docs)
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 04:01:08 PM »
Hi folks,

my name is Kevin. glad to find some more serious wolf followers here..

Please consider these facts about this species. I don't know if it has been brought to your attention before, since I am new here, and please accept my apologies if so....but here goes......

this link proves there are serious problems within the state of Id.

http://www.legislature.Idaho.gov/legislation/2010/HCR043.pdf

here is a link to show the Non-Native, Invasive status we are now forced to hand down upon this species....

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter175.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter176.htm

Here is a link showing how wolves become human-habituated.... with an informative 7 steps to human-habituated wolves......

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2010/01/16/w-i-s-e-human-habituated-wolves-in-idaho/

here is an incident that took place in Id. recently. shows how far these wolves are progressing through the 7 steps of human habituation....

http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/school-facilities-transportation-school/13736312-1.html


here is another from Id.....

http://wolfcrossing.org/2008/02/01/idaho-wolves-kill-deer-within-yards-of-school-bus-stop/

how about a link to a recent town hall meeting to address the problem of wolves killing prey within Sun Valley city limits.....

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005130227

Now lets examine what 2 photo's of a pack north of Jackson Hole shows as to how big these packs can become when they are allowed to expand uncontrolled....

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r132/trappenfool/20100128_5ld.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r132/trappenfool/20100128_6ld.jpg


Think we might stand a chance of recovering from this act of "Eco-Terrorism"?

Only if we sportsmen stand up and declare war on this species along with all the other Non-Native Invasive species will we even stand a chance of having this hunting heritage to pass on to our children, grandchildren.




 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Desert Sheds by MADMAX
[Today at 11:25:33 AM]


Nevada Results by cem3434
[Today at 11:18:49 AM]


Last year putting in… by JimmyHoffa
[Today at 11:07:02 AM]


Search underway for three missing people after boat sinks near Mukilteo by fishngamereaper
[Today at 10:16:54 AM]


Oregon spring bear by pianoman9701
[Today at 09:54:52 AM]


Best/Preferred Scouting App by follow maggie
[Today at 09:08:20 AM]


Anybody breeding meat rabbit? by HighlandLofts
[Today at 08:25:26 AM]


Sportsman’s Muzzloader Selection by VickGar
[Yesterday at 09:20:43 PM]


Vantage Bridge by jackelope
[Yesterday at 08:03:05 PM]


wyoming pronghorn draw by 87Ford
[Yesterday at 07:35:40 PM]


Wyoming elk who's in? by go4steelhd
[Yesterday at 03:25:16 PM]


New to ML-Optics help by Threewolves
[Yesterday at 02:55:25 PM]


Survey in ? by metlhead
[Yesterday at 01:42:41 PM]


F250 or Silverado 2500? by 7mmfan
[Yesterday at 01:39:14 PM]


Is FS70 open? by yajsab
[Yesterday at 10:13:07 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal