same rule in Id. as WA. to not take wild steelhead out of water?????

[huntergreg]

I was watching HAWG QUEST and they were fishing the Clear-water in Idaho and I counted 10 wild fish they netted and had in the boat taking pictures and holding up for the show. I was wondering if they had the same rule here as to not take any wild steelhead out of the water???  

[snocohunter]

I watched the same episode. I am pretty sure I've seen them pull nates out of the cowlitz too. I may be mistaken on that though. Don't quote me.

[goosegetter79]

Watched it as well and was shocked to see all those native's brought out of the water. Surprised the guide would even allow it.

[ribka]

Checked the ID online regs could not find anything about removing natives from water

Clearwater, single barbless hook. You would think think that a competent, ethical  Guide would not remove the fish from the water and minimize handling.

I would not personally fish with a Guide like this.

Guess he wanted glory shots for the TV camera.

[highclimber]

Thought the way they handle and released these fish was wrong. Look like they where out to party.

[Tealer]

 Leaving the fish in water makes a bad show. I really think the Hawg Quest guys are good fisherman but bad sportsmen. I have seen them pull natives on the Cowltz before.

[Machias]

   If the fish is left in the water/net, then lifted out for a 3 second photos, I don't see that as being a bad sportsman.  I understand it's illegal here but no such rule in ID.  The fish is released unharmed, I don't see it as being unethical or unsportsmanlike.    

[GEARHEAD]

thats cause your not a flyfisherman.      

[Machias]

thats cause your not a flyfisherman.      

I guess so, I'm just a white, trailer trash bait fisherman.  

[Houndhunter]

i guess im a white trash bait fisherman too . i see no problem with taking a native outa the water for a pic, sucks cause it can be really hard to get a good pic of a native when your in a boat without taking the fish outa the water. most the fish i catch hatchery or not get released, the hatcherys after a pic seem to swim away just as good as the natives do

[GEARHEAD]

AS AM I, Lol, i flyfish, but would never ever call myself a flyfisherman. guess what i meant is ya have to be better than everybody else to understand, Lol.  i saw that show too, my first thought, was here we go with the dabate on a 10 second picture and release of a still very green fish. seems that some in the flyfishing community, seem to think this is more harmful to wild steelhead than fighting one for 20 minutes on a 6 weight. i'm guessing fly caught mortality is far far greater than gear caught and released mortality. i would like to propose an end to fly fishing on streams that have these runs of beautiful wild fish, Lol. guess i'm still stinging from the fact that i wasn't even worth a hello on the Met the other day as i wasn't dressed in Simms and carrying a bug rod

[ribka]

Is this going to turn into a fly vs bait fisherman post

I am white trash as the next guy (I  grew up on a dairy farm in Wisconsin) and most times would actually rather fish with a bait guy, as long as he has most of his teeth, than a fly fisherman. Too many of fly fishermen are super anal and elitist tools. And most of the fly fishermen here in WA are bigtime libs too. Check out some of the fly fishing web sites.

I think the no handling of natives ( same for over size sturgeon) in a lot of states is that too many guys take fish out of water too long for photo or end up dropping it on the bank or in the boat when trying to get the pic. Do not think it is a bad law

Agree to disagree I guess

[goosegetter79]

Taking the fish out of water for a quick pic. but they had these fish out of water for quite some time tho. Still like the HAWG QUESt show tho because they are a local fishing show.

[Machias]

would actually rather fish with a bait guy, as long as he has most of his teeth, than a fly fisherman.

  Too funny!

[Machias]

True story, I was stationed for 6 years in merry old England, first 4 years I only fished for pike (they have world class pike fishing in England).  But the KING of fish over there is the carp.  I have seen guys land a carp, put lip balm on it's lip where the hook was in and wade out in waist deep water and cradling the fish bring it gently back to full strength.  Once I seen a guy fight and land a carp without a net, several other bank fishermen got and walked over and made it extremely clear if he ever did that again they'd throw him in the water right after they pounded his butt.  When I tell them how we treat carp over here, I get gasps and shudders.  Too funny how different regions look at different species.

[jackelope]

I am a flyfisherman, and I also own a driftboat with rod holders for my gear rods, and just sold a powerboat with downriggers and stuff...I even have simms waders...because they are good quality stuff.
with that said...
it's a good law. as I said in a different post, 10% of fish that get released die anyway. Why contribute to the problem and risk killing more native fish? Anybody that has fished more than a day in their lives and says they've never been holding a fish and had it flop out of their hands or lost one because they didn't have a good grip on them is full of it. Now drop that fish on the rocks or on the floor of your boat and let it flop around for a while, then pick it up again for your hero shot, etc...all that equals a dead native steelhead...a risk nobody needs to be taking.
 
p.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot.

[backyard bucks]

p.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot.

OH HELL HERE WE GO......

[Machias]

p.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot.

That is probably a fairly accurate statement. 

I guess the only reason I chimed in, is the original question, was is it illegal in ID, to which the answer is NO.  Plus my guide a couple of weekends ago was very conscientious about and with the wild fish.  He showed great care in it's handling, had it out of the water for about 3-5 seconds.  I can tell you he's a very ethical fella.  Just a thought.

[backyard bucks]

[.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot./quote]

i don't think that is fair at all.. we care about the fishes trip up the river and in doing so we are providing them food for their travels..
unlike fly slingers who only trick those poor things and offering them just a bit of feather...WTF.. HA HA HA HA
 

[MtnMuley]

p.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot.

Where do the drift, jig, and spoon fisherman with single barbless fit in?

[woodywsu]

I'll show you how to stir the pot. Fly fisherman FLOSS more fish than any other method out there. 

[jackelope]

p.s. bait fishermen as a group are killing a lot more fish either way you look at it by fishing bait whether they take the fish out of the water or not. that ought to really stir the pot.

Where do the drift, jig, and spoon fisherman with single barbless fit in?

fish swallow bait...hooked deep, bleed out, dead fish. happens much more often than artificials, be it fly gear, spoons, whatever hardware you throw at them.

Flossing is easy to do with whatever method you use with some practice. It used to be the only method in Lake Ontarion tributaries for chinook salmon fishing. It was totally legal to do back there and very effective. Those fish don't eat bait in the rivers. I could floss salmon 3 to 1 when compared to the guys fishing gear rods.

[KimberRich]

Caught 4 wild fish on the Sol Duc yesterday on bait but didn't touch or remove any of the fish from the water.  So I guess I'm a dirt bag for using bait but a decent guy for not removing them for a picture..   

[MtnMuley]

LMAO to woody and Kimber!  I totally agree jackelope on the bait issue, but why do the artificial guys still get a bad rap while fishing around fly fisherman?

[woodywsu]

My good fishing buddy is from Duvall. He knows how to floss with the best of them. I'll admit, I can floss the hell out of fish. But I don't understand how fly fisherman think they are better than anyone on the river and badmouth all these different techniques when a majority of their catches aren't legit. You will never hear a fly fisherman admit he has flossed a fish.

[jackelope]

I just did admit I flossed fish...

[jackelope]

I don't think all flyfishermen are the type of arrogant pukes that a lot of you guys make them out to be. There's a few, but there's a few in every crowd, be it the fishing crowd and the driftboat guys or bank fishermen that get pissed off and resent the jetsled guys for blazing the river, or the trophy hunter guys that resent the meat hunters because they shoot little bucks and the list goes on and on.

WoodyWSU, if I remember correctly you're a biologist. Surely you've got some better info on holding fish out of the water than the risk of dropping them or suffocating them...maybe about their unsupported guts flopping around inside them being bad for them, etc...

[jackelope]

Caught 4 wild fish on the Sol Duc yesterday on bait but didn't touch or remove any of the fish from the water.  So I guess I'm a dirt bag for using bait but a decent guy for not removing them for a picture..   

KimberRich....if you think I am referring to bait fishermen as dirt bags, you need to get to know me a little bit before assuming that. I merely stated a fact that bait fishermen kill more fish than hardware guys.
If you did what you say you did, then I give you a solid pat on the back. I have nothing against bait guys. What I do go against is the idiots that don't know how to handle a fish for release then say they did everything right and that the fish will survive.
Doesn't sound to me like you're that guy.

[woodywsu]

sorry, as a bio, i don't try to concentrate my efforts on holding fish out of water and throwing them up the shoreline. Personally, any salmonid fish I pull out of the water is going home with me. What gets me is the guys who are netting bull trout and holding them and wild steelhead out of water. Usually they are holding them by their peduncle with one hand and the other squezzing their gills. Gets me every time.

And I wasn't bashing anyone who flosses. I just think that SOME of the fly fisherman need to realize that there aren't god of the river or any websites.   

[KimberRich]

Caught 4 wild fish on the Sol Duc yesterday on bait but didn't touch or remove any of the fish from the water.  So I guess I'm a dirt bag for using bait but a decent guy for not removing them for a picture..   

KimberRich....if you think I am referring to bait fishermen as dirt bags, you need to get to know me a little bit before assuming that. I merely stated a fact that bait fishermen kill more fish than hardware guys.
If you did what you say you did, then I give you a solid pat on the back. I have nothing against bait guys. What I do go against is the idiots that don't know how to handle a fish for release then say they did everything right and that the fish will survive.
Doesn't sound to me like you're that guy.

The comment wasn't directed at you at all jackelope..  Sorry if it seemed that way.  I should have put a  after the comment.  Was just stirring the pot a little! No need for a pat on the back but I appreciate that.  I do agree with you that bait fisherman kill more fish than hardware fishermen.  I prefer to not handle any fish, in any way, that I don't intend on bringing home.  I never keep steelhead.  Native or Hatchery.. I have enough Salmon in the freezer to last me so I figure let them go and hopefully they'll reproduce.  Always use small, single, barbless hooks.  I don't care what people say, when you net and/or grab a fish and have scales all over your hands and hold them out of the water I think it kills a ton of the fish.  I think the number is much higher than stated but that's my opinion.  I just want there to be fish left for my kids and other sportsmen.  Not all bait fish are hooked deep.. Here's a picture from yesterday which is exactly what I like to see.  Right in the lip, snapped a quick pic in the water, let it go without touching it at all. 

[GEARHEAD]

the time to strike is now. Bug Thugs that Swing, are at war with those that use Indicators. they are a divided lot, and weak, Lol.
guess this is all my fault, sorry for jacking the post

[woodywsu]

Kimber....You say you do not keep steelhead, hatchery or native. On some rivers, you are breaking the law by releasing hatchery fish. They give us a season on the methow and okanogan strictly for removing the hatchery fish due to the limited spawning grounds. Thus causing more spawning water for the native run of steelhead. WDFW can easily kill all hatchery fish at the Wells Dam adult trap to guarentee spawning ground availability. By releasign hatchery fish, you are breakign the law on these rivers which may take our fishing privelidges away from us. I know they discussed not allowing fly fishign on the methow due to their large catch numbers and low harvest. A majority of fly fisherman release all catch.

[fisheral87]

It's just the WDFW trying to control ethics. You can't. i.e. gun control.
Is a fly caught less green when landed on light tackle? Yes. Does that compromise it ability to survive? You bet. Do some people take care to release their catch with the least harm possible if legally bound? Yep. Have people in the past jeopardized their catch's ability to survive by dragging it along a gravel bar? I've seen it happen. So are we going to ban fly fishing so as to increase survival rates?

WDFW has regulated against removing natives from the water, but could we have accomplished the same end by educating instead of regulating? In this poor fly fisherman's opinion, yes. We have shifted the responsibility of citizenship into the hands of government entities, instead of holding each other accountable for the part we play within society. Damn shame if you ask me.

A friend and I encountered an old timer on the Pilchuck one day. He commented that when he was a kid they would pull fish after fish out in a day. he continued to say that if he had really thought about what he was doing and the long term repercussions of those epic days he would have rather saved a few of those fish for his retirement (To bad you can put them in the bank, old buddy), so that he could have warmed up his hands on a red hot steelhead instead of running through a pack of cigarettes in the rain. Knowledge is power, and voluntary ignorance is not a reason for leniency.

[woodywsu]

I did not mean any of my posts to support banning fly fishing.

[jackelope]

Knowledge is power, and voluntary ignorance is not a reason for leniency

I have a new sig line.

[ribka]

Good points all. Maybe get 10 pages out of this post
 
Last time fished Met the WDFW fish checkers were adamant about keeping hatchery fish. Even mentioned that some guys releasing hatchery fish up there received fines. As stated previously they (WDFW) really want to remove all of the hatchery fish out of the system. Am guessing once number of hatchery fish removed probably closed for all steelhead fishing in the future as in the past. Seems like more and more fishing and hunting oppourtunities are disappearing in our country for the average man with average means; that is another topic.

Most of the knowledgable people who study fish mortality rates in relation to fishing state that play fish as quickly as possible and minimize handling of fish. Water temps play a part too.

I prefer to fly fish over bait because personally more fun and interesting to me and enjoy tying my own flies.  I will admit fly fisherman, not all of course, do tend to be more elitist. I have fly guys/guides on the river give me crap for nymphing for steelhead with my spey rod.

"A spey rod , my good sir, is only to be used to swing flies". "Nymphing with a spey rod is a sacrilege!"

Gear guys tend to be much more friendly too and not as territorial on the lakes and river. But that is just an observation fishing here in the NW. I swear half the time I say hi to a guy fly fishing in WA, MT, OR, WY,  he gives me a look like I just raped his dog 

Machias: I fished in England with my brother, who lives there, and it is really funny how they worship the lowly carp as a game fish in England. They have big time tournaments, special gear for carp fishing. Almost like a salmon or steelhead. Must be from living on that small island and the inbreeding
I say that because my brother is married to a Brit girl. Poor guy

sorry for the highjack

[GEARHEAD]

that comment about the dog, lol that does describe the Look, i normally get when saying hello when passing a bugman, lol. wondering if its just me, guess not. i normally say hello, normal response is to look at my hands if i'm carrying a spin rod, i'm ignored even after eye contact, if i have a bug rod, but also have an indicator, same thing just ignored. even though i flyfish, the majority of the rude and antisocial behavior i encounter are buggers. can't we all get along 

[fisheral87]

I did not mean any of my posts to support banning fly fishing.

I didn't mean to sound as if I was accusing. Under some of the logic I see employed by the WDFW at times it would seem a viable option.   IMO the no natives out of the water is one of these situations. I'm sure there are those who disagree. I do see its purpose but question it's effectiveness.

I too agree that there is some serious hefting of the noses when it comes to fly fishermen. But I've seen guides pulling plugs who think they own the river. (Boy there is nothing quite like working a "Bloody Mary" through the dark green depths is there?!)  

My take is, how ever you want to fish is up to you. If you think you know the best way to catch fish, your behind the tail fin so to speak.

Learn, grow and share your experience.

Now lets hold hands and sing coom bi ya. Sike!    

[fisheral87]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,45321.0.html

Exhibit A, A guy who just wants to have a keepsake of a great day on the water.

[Machias]

Machias: I fished in England with my brother, who lives there, and it is really funny how they worship the lowly carp as a game fish in England. They have big time tournaments, special gear for carp fishing. Almost like a salmon or steelhead. Must be from living on that small island and the inbreeding
I say that because my brother is married to a Brit girl. Poor guy

sorry for the highjack

  I just had my 24th anniversary two weeks ago...to a British girl.    She just got her citizenship last May, we figured after 23 years it was time.

[ribka]

For me and a lot of others fishing  is simply "The tug is the drug" Love the initial take of the lure.

Machias. Very happy it worked out for you. My twin brother married a controlling, how shall I say British $$%^, . I only get to see him once every 5 years or so.I guess it does not come down to nationality. I am not married to An American girl( She is a city girl from Eastern Europe). Took a few years to come to an understanding. Now she loves to fish and hunt. She helped me butcher my last deer and smoke my fish ( steelhead and trout). Glad it worked out for us

Group hug for the gear and fly guys.  :Maybe I can book Oprah or Dr. Phil. We can discuss our feelings

[GEARHEAD]

If i wanted to hug a turdpusher, i could just go to Capitol Hill

[snocohunter]

If i wanted to hug a turdpusher, i could just go to Capitol Hill

Okay you owe me a new keyboard! I just spit coffee all over mine! 

[Machias]

If i wanted to hug a turdpusher, i could just go to Capitol Hill

 

[Houndhunter]

just a heads up, im pretty sure hogquest fished the cowlitz before that rule was around

[snocohunter]

just a heads up, im pretty sure hogquest fished the cowlitz before that rule was around

True. Guess it's wrong to assume it was recently taped. Maybe guys just shouldn't say where the fish was caught if they wanna be *censored* enough to post the picture on the internet. Hard to prove a cropped pictures is from a washington river

[whacker1]

Wow, what a fun and exciting topic.  The best way to make aany fisherman angry is to have a dry fly with rod in one hand and eggs with a baitcaster in the other floating through the same whole.  of course illegal, but would get an interesting look from anyone.  our fishing crew has a bit of a drinking problem, so we typically get dirty looks for the obsessive laughing and voluminous consumption of beer.

[KimberRich]

Kimber....You say you do not keep steelhead, hatchery or native. On some rivers, you are breaking the law by releasing hatchery fish. They give us a season on the methow and okanogan strictly for removing the hatchery fish due to the limited spawning grounds. Thus causing more spawning water for the native run of steelhead. WDFW can easily kill all hatchery fish at the Wells Dam adult trap to guarentee spawning ground availability. By releasign hatchery fish, you are breakign the law on these rivers which may take our fishing privelidges away from us. I know they discussed not allowing fly fishign on the methow due to their large catch numbers and low harvest. A majority of fly fisherman release all catch.

I know the rules and don't break them but thanks for the info.  I don't fish either of the rivers you spoke of.  All my steelheading is done on the westside and in rivers that I'm allowed to release all fish.