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Author Topic: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts  (Read 9081 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« on: March 03, 2010, 06:51:05 AM »
It appears the WDFW budget is now the topic in the legislature.

At the start of the 2010 Legislative session WDFW was expected to take another reduction in the $1 million dollar (or so) range.  The mandate from the Office of the Governor was manageable.  The most recent action by the Senate in its version of the budget has created a serious situation for the department as it calls for a little more then $6 million in additional cuts.  Attached is a summary of the impact of these proposed cuts and the impacts upon the agency.

Comparison of House and Senate cuts: http://washingtonwolf.info/pdf/Fish_and_Wildlife_2010_Budget_Talking_Points.pdf

What are your feelings?
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 11:25:07 AM »
Can't beleive none of you guys have comments about their budget.
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Offline whacker1

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 11:28:44 AM »
I don't know enough about their budget to know where they would cut.  The one thing they do have a lot of is upper management.  I would like to see the cuts from the top down, but doubt that will happen.  The legislative agenda in Olympia, coming from the top down leadership has always been to cut services instead of adminstration of said services for the 10 years I have been active in politics.  I am sure that we will see more of the same in that regard.

Offline Kain

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 11:30:37 AM »
I will read this tonight when I get home but my feeling are that most government agencies have plenty of room to make cuts.  Just look at the recent post about the new position on global warming.  The problem is that these departments always make cuts where it will hurt the public the most as a way to punish us for wanting the cuts.  They will scream and cry about how many jobs will be lost and how detrimental this will be.  Truth is they could make smaller cuts across the board by finding efficiencies OR fully fund core programs and remove any fluff and/or pet projects.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 11:39:31 AM »
I agree with both of you, whacker and Kain. I'm afraid it will spell out in the end as a loss to wardens, hatcheries, core services, etc. as you have said.
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Offline Shootmoore

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 12:02:19 PM »
I agree with both of you, whacker and Kain. I'm afraid it will spell out in the end as a loss to wardens, hatcheries, core services, etc. as you have said.

I'm afraid your right bearpaw.  The last round of budget cuts was a bottom up approach.  Instead of whacking off some of the fluff on the top.  I imagine they are going to once again keep the managers and cut the worker bee's.  I have to wonder why we need a director of everything today?  It used to be a director, assistant director, 1 guy in charge of Fish and 1 for Game.  Now you have a furbearar, elk, deer, predator, wolf, salmon recovery, fish, cougar, bear, etc etc etc who are all based in Oly.  Now they are making a climate change manager?  My brother is a worker bee for the state, he will be lucky to survive this round of cuts.  Even though he works at 3 hatcheries now since the last round of cuts, because they do not have the number of worker bee's to cover each hatchery.

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Offline Wacenturion

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 12:51:01 PM »
It's always been bottom up.  To get top down first thing on the agenda is getting a Director who not only knows where to start at the top, but also has the you know what's to do it.  Never going to happen in our life time......too much of the not rock the boat with upper management and the commission.  Sad thing is...is so easy to make that agency efficient if it was necessary.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 05:27:59 PM »
Since the legislature is looking over these cuts, would it do any good to ask the legislators to force the cuts at the top?
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Offline Kain

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 06:08:56 PM »
Since the legislature is looking over these cuts, would it do any good to ask the legislators to force the cuts at the top?

Thats a good idea.  It cant hurt thats for sure. 

The "core" functions of the department need to be defined and they should be told that anything that does not fall in one of those should be reviewed and then justified before funding.  They need to look into partnering and sharing data with neighboring states and splitting the costs or just using the data from others states when they can.  Subbing out some functions to private companies should also be looked at.

Offline Curly

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 06:17:10 PM »
I wonder what the wolf budget is?   :dunno:  They should get rid of anything to do with helping wolves.
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Offline Shootmoore

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 06:20:07 PM »
I wonder what the wolf budget is?   :dunno:  They should get rid of anything to do with helping wolves.

I believe they were "guessing" around 700-900 thousand.

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Offline whacker1

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2010, 06:21:31 PM »
I have been told that the legislature doesn't have the ability to take on specific management structure within a department.  They can set budget and regulation for said department, but not hire and fire.  I am told that this is to be management directive from the governor's office, which we know won't happen.

I don't know if this information is accurate or not, but I know that there isn't anyone in these roles in any of state government that is going to make many cuts to upper and middle management in order to retain the quality of service.  I am pretty sure tha the governor still has her 30 + aids and hasn't eliminated any of those positions.  

Offline roadhuntking

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2010, 06:28:57 PM »
They're hiring a Deputy Asst. Director.

http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/employment/jobs/1316_WMS_030910.pdf

Offline whacker1

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 06:33:55 PM »
Probably the best recourse is to ask the question from us to them, person by person, as we have with letters to the legislature.  And the question is:  How can you justify hiring the following positions: deputy assistant director, climate change mgr, etc. when you know that you are facing budget cuts from the legislature in the next 30 -60 days?  Maybe we as the voters need to hold each department at the state level accountable.    My bet is that the climate change mgr is a directive that comes directly from gregoire's office.

We could potentially ask these questions of the director and the commission as to why there haven't been any middle management or upper management reductions via the last few budget cuts?   I don't know what else to try.  the legislature sure as hell isn't going to do it.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 06:58:58 PM »
I agree with both of you, whacker and Kain. I'm afraid it will spell out in the end as a loss to wardens, hatcheries, core services, etc. as you have said.

Actually as the current budget proposal is written there is no cut to WDFW enforcement.

Here is the current proposed budget in a easier to understand format:

http://fiscal.wa.gov/FRViewer.aspx?Rpt=Operating+Budget+Agency+Detail

Just select "Fish and Wildlife" under the agency area

Offline bigtex

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 07:03:52 PM »
Since the legislature is looking over these cuts, would it do any good to ask the legislators to force the cuts at the top?

Legislators have no authority or power to determine which positions are cut. For example they could cut the habitat program by 10%, they dont care if you fire the #2 position in the habitat program or the bottom 10, they just care that 10% is cut.

Offline Axle

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2010, 07:10:28 PM »
Bearpaw, I say cut the whole damn budjet 100 percent and let HunWa manage the critters.

We will start by getting rid of all the wolves and most of the cougars. Then we will see some serious hunting going on in this state. The kind of hunting that brings other hunters from other states.

I say - Bearpaw for president!!!!! Then we can sit around the campfire eating elk burgers and chant things like - four more beers! - four more beers! - four more beers!
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Offline Special T

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »
Big Tex atta-boy at scrounging this stuff up! But uh er can you decipher what the different columns are? Of course the don't have a cheet sheet to decipher their budget
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2010, 07:42:54 PM »
Bearpaw, I say cut the whole damn budjet 100 percent and let HunWa manage the critters.

We will start by getting rid of all the wolves and most of the cougars. Then we will see some serious hunting going on in this state. The kind of hunting that brings other hunters from other states.

I say - Bearpaw for president!!!!! Then we can sit around the campfire eating elk burgers and chant things like - four more beers! - four more beers! - four more beers!

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Better go with whacker, his profession may not be as controversial... :chuckle:

On a more serious note, you guys are saying the legislature has little control over designating funds, are you sure about that?
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Offline mulehunter

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2010, 07:48:21 PM »
Bearpaw, I say cut the whole damn budjet 100 percent and let HunWa manage the critters.

We will start by getting RID of all the wolves .   :bash:

I say - Bearpaw for president!!!!! Then we can sit around the campfire eating elk burgers and chant things like - four more beers! - four more beers! - four more beers!


:yeah:   

Mulehunter   :party1:

Offline bigtex

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2010, 07:53:04 PM »
Bearpaw, I say cut the whole damn budjet 100 percent and let HunWa manage the critters.

We will start by getting rid of all the wolves and most of the cougars. Then we will see some serious hunting going on in this state. The kind of hunting that brings other hunters from other states.

I say - Bearpaw for president!!!!! Then we can sit around the campfire eating elk burgers and chant things like - four more beers! - four more beers! - four more beers!

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Better go with whacker, his profession may not be as controversial... :chuckle:

On a more serious note, you guys are saying the legislature has little control over designating funds, are you sure about that?

No, we are saying the legislature has little control in how agencies conduct their budget cuts. The legislature doesn’t control over what positions get eliminated, agencies do that. Like I posted, the legislature could say cut enforcement by X amount of money, they do not say cut X amount of field officers. So WDFW has to determine do they just cut field officers, do they cut field supervisors, or do they cut positions at HQ. The legislature doesn’t care which position is cut, they only care that the funding is cut.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2010, 08:01:33 PM »
thanks for the detailed explanation, the clouds are gone now... :chuckle:
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Offline Wacenturion

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2010, 08:08:36 PM »
They're hiring a Deputy Asst. Director.

http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/employment/jobs/1316_WMS_030910.pdf


Well they could start here.  This job basically is a position whose function it is to coordinate headquarters wildlife management business with that of the six regions.  In other words someone to act on behalf of the Wildlife Management Assistant Director in communicating department business with regional staff....regional wildlife program managers.  Which by the way accounts for six more top paying, don't tell me how to run my region type attitude jobs, that are not needed.  See how easy these budget cuts can be......just probably saved 20+ field jobs with those cuts dollar wise.   

Getting back to the Deputy Assistant Director job......that's what the damn Assistant Director for Wildlife  is paid to do.......are you starting to see the waste at the top?  Every high end job in WDFW has assistants who get paid big dollars to do part of their supervisors job.  It's true......what ever happen to being accountable and getting paid to produce and make decisions?  Under the current setup....way too many chiefs to place blame...it just rolls downhill to field positions.

Sorry to tell you folks but this is what WDFW has become in the past 20 years............. a giant bowel like creature needing a good colonic!
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Offline Wacenturion

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2010, 08:13:34 PM »
Bearpaw, I say cut the whole damn budjet 100 percent and let HunWa manage the critters.

We will start by getting rid of all the wolves and most of the cougars. Then we will see some serious hunting going on in this state. The kind of hunting that brings other hunters from other states.

I say - Bearpaw for president!!!!! Then we can sit around the campfire eating elk burgers and chant things like - four more beers! - four more beers! - four more beers!

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Better go with whacker, his profession may not be as controversial... :chuckle:

On a more serious note, you guys are saying the legislature has little control over designating funds, are you sure about that?

No, we are saying the legislature has little control in how agencies conduct their budget cuts. The legislature doesn’t control over what positions get eliminated, agencies do that. Like I posted, the legislature could say cut enforcement by X amount of money, they do not say cut X amount of field officers. So WDFW has to determine do they just cut field officers, do they cut field supervisors, or do they cut positions at HQ. The legislature doesn’t care which position is cut, they only care that the funding is cut.


That's where the Commission in my opinion is dropping the ball.  The Commission is the Director's boss.  They can basically tell him what is needed to be cut or not cut........they too just don't have the knowledge or you know what's to do it.  If the Director doesn't do it......they can fire him....that simple.
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Offline Wacenturion

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2010, 08:22:53 PM »
Don't forget to add the newly created climate control manager position in WDFW to the above 7 jobs I mentioned above......now we have 8 high paying, doesn't produce anything really viable positions.  Before you know it we'll be in the black and cutting license fees...lol. :chuckle:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 08:29:46 PM »
Wacenturion, if I am reading correctly between the lines, the Commission needs to recieve a large bag of letters requesting cuts in current upper level management and elimination of this plan to hire even more managers.
 
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Offline Wacenturion

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 08:31:52 PM »
Food for thought.................WDFW doesn't really physically manage things on the ground for the most part...not all.  It's all theory and expanded scientific voodoo.  So if that's the case if you were to get rid of say half of the top end and make the agency whole, wildlife per se would not even now the difference.  Neither would we for that matter.

I know that sounds too simple, but just think on it for awhile.  Every time they face cuts they make excuses that are not even true.  The things they say are so critical as far as justifying the retention of top administrative type jobs and what they do is a shell game....they really don't do what they say, except in theory, sitting in countless pat themselves on the back worthless meetings.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 08:42:27 PM by Wacenturion »
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 08:36:52 PM »
I already was on all that page with you. I wonder if a bag of letters could get through to the commission?   :dunno:
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 08:38:15 PM »
I wonder if a bag of letters could get through to the commission?   :dunno:

Drop them off in person at the next meeting. Isn't it coming up, March 12th I think...

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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 08:41:29 PM »
Wacenturion, if I am reading correctly between the lines, the Commission needs to recieve a large bag of letters requesting cuts in current upper level management and elimination of this plan to hire even more managers.
 


As I mentioned....the Director reports to and serves at the pleasure of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.  They hire and fire the Director, one of their biggest responsibilities.  To answer your between the lines.............that's the likely soft spot in the armour.  But with that being said, I don't see them as being the types to play hardball...........but you never know.

Too bad we don't have a Director who would be aggressive in reshaping that agency and convincing the Commission it the right thing to do with their concurrence. 
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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2010, 08:42:30 PM »
Why don't we push for one of us to be on the commission? I mean a REAL hunter needs a voice right? There are several subjects where we need to do a better job where the rubber meets the road.  :bash:
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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2010, 08:45:47 PM »
Here's a link to who makes how much in the WDFW. Thought it was interesting and figured this thread was a good one to post it in.

http://lbloom.net/dfw09.html


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Re: Your Opinion - WDFW Budget Cuts
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2010, 09:00:14 PM »
Thanks for the info Bundy.

I know there are lots of feelings about this issue but a decent way to release people would need to be used. Perhaps the biggest single thing is to stop creating these new positions, or rearrange people into them so that numbers of management do not increase.  :twocents:
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