home defense

[Jerbear]

Several weapons, a large yellow lab, and a warning sign with a picture of Gov Hogwire at the gate.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I have a telephone to call 911 to let the proper authorities deal with the poor, misguided underprivileged soul(s).  I will use my verbal skills to express my empathy at their plight, and discourage them from committing crimes. 

If that doesn't work within the first 0.01 seconds, I will fear for my life and fill them with 125gr semi-jacketed +p hollowpoints.  After I reload, I will watch for signs of life, especially hostile movements.  I will maintain cover over them until the boys in blue arrive.

Before they come through the door I will be yelling to alert them to my presence and that I am the homeowner, my firearm will not be visible, and I will be on my knees with both hands open and high above my head.  I will expect to stare down multiple muzzles and immediately comply with their shouted orders.  I will not object to being pushed down and cuffed up until they secure the residence and assess the situation.  I will not expect them to automatically know I am the righteous, lawful homeowner and that the dead guy(s) are the bad ones.       

[rasbo]

Gov Hogwire at the gate


Jerry that right there would make me think twice about entering the premises,knowing the harm she has done to tens of thousands of hard working folk

[Shadow Cat]

a 1911 with extra mags close at hand all loaded with FACTORY 230gr Gold Dot. DO NOT EVER USE A RELOAD in a personal defense gun!!!! Your gun and ammunition will be inspected and the results will be given to the bad guys family. You will more than likely face a civil suit for killing the bad guy and all the attorney will have to do is say, "Factory ammunition was not good enough for you and you had to 'create' a supper killer that you used to kill my client's (insert here)!" case closed and you just lost your house. This is from an article that I read years ago...

Comments on Using Handloads for Self-Defense
By John Ross

Many shooters who reload ask about the best recipes for self-defense loads for use in their carry guns. Certain defensive-shooting writers, most notably Massad Ayoob, advise against using any handloaded ammunition for this purpose. They paint a picture of a prosecutor demonizing the shooter for wanting to craft special ammo even deadlier and with more maiming ability than what the factories produce. The single exception Ayoob listed (and here he was tepid in his endorsement) was for someone who needed a defensive load in a powerful, deep-penetrating caliber like the .44 Magnum. To avoid overpenetration and injuring others with a shoot-through, a less-powerful loading than factory fodder might be appropriate.

The instance of a prosecutor going after a citizen for using handloads in a defensive shooting has not actually happened anywhere that anyone can document. The Internet discussion boards call it an “urban legend from Massad Ayoob,” which is maybe not fair to Ayoob. I don’t think Massad ever claimed a specific case where it had happened, only that it could.

There is one area where handloads have caused problems for investigators, and ironically it is mild loads like the kind mentioned above that are most likely to get the shooter in trouble. This is in those cases where there's a serious dispute about how far away the shooter was from the shootee when he pulled the trigger. Forensic experts can pin this distance down very accurately if they have the gun used and identical factory ammo. Handloads, though, can vary widely depending on powder type and pressure level. Obviously, if forensics have samples of identical ammo, like the unfired rounds still in your gun, there should be no problem, although three or four samples may not be enough to perform the needed tests. But what if you've emptied your gun? How do you prove the stuff on your loading bench is the same as the rounds you touched off? The truth is, you can’t.

Theoretical problem area: You whip up a batch of low-recoil, mild .44 loads with low blast signature, for lower recoil and to prevent overpenetration. You encounter a group of would-be attackers, strung out on whatever is that day's drug of choice, who are out "wilding" (which is what happened to the Central Park Jogger.) They ignore your demands to stop and drop their contact weapons (pipes etc.). They keep coming and you finally pop the closest ones at 7-10 feet, firing all 6 rounds at these two who keep pressing the attack as the third and fourth flee. Thug 1 is dead, Thug 2 crippled but alive, Thugs 3 and 4 free for now until Thug 2 tells the police who they are.

Because of your light load, the residue on the clothing of the dead and wounded is almost undetectable, similar to what a factory magnum load would generate at, say, 20 feet.

Will Al Sharpton get involved? Will Thugs 2, 3,and 4 claim they were over 20 feet away and on their way to church service when you opened fire on them? Will they all agree you screamed a racial epithet at them and when they turned to see who the Klansman was, you just started blasting? Will police say that if you thought they were a threat you should have retreated? Will they say you fired too soon? The likeliest testimony from forensics will be "Based on the forensic evidence, we can't say with any confidence how far Mr. Citizen was from Mr. Thug when he shot him. It may have been a few feet, but it may have been over 20. We don't know."

A prosecutor arguing that a defendant misused lethal force by creating extra-powerful handloads is an imaginative "what if" that has never actually happened in a courtroom. A prosecutor arguing that a defendant misused lethal force because he shot someone who was far enough away that he was not an immediate threat is a very real argument that has been presented to juries on many occasions.

John Ross 12/12/2003  

[jackelope]

peace

[jackelope]

more...
 

[rasbo]

Nuff said

[DOUBLELUNG]

The writing style is dated, but I highly recommend anyone contemplating use of firearms for self-defense read Massad Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme.  It could easily keep you out of jail.

[Deep Forks]

  At arms length: Kimber Crimson Carry II, 5" 45acp
  Close enough: Mossberg JIC Cruiser 12ga 1 chamber, 6 tubed

  Wife: Springfield XD 9mm 4" Crimson Carry
 

The writing style is dated, but I highly recommend anyone contemplating use of firearms for self-defense read Massad Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme.  It could easily keep you out of jail.

Very good reading  

[duckaholic]

have any of you seen these before?

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0079486217531a&navCount=1&podId=0079486&parentId=cat20841&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20712-cat20726-cat20841&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20841&hasJS=true

[Kent Hunter]

I work away from home quite a bit. With that being said I purchased a S&W Model 640 Centennial .357 Mag 2 1/4" bbl for the wife and put "Crimson Trace" laser grips on it. We figured that it would probably be dark when and if someone made the poor decision to enter our house uninvited. It's loaded with 130 gr hydra shocks. The wife has it on the night stand every night. When I'm home it's on my side of the bed. I'm one of those blessed men that married a woman that is not afraid to use a weapon to defend herself. The poor bastage might make his way into our house, but he sure as hell won't be leaving it on his own power. My wife also has her CWP and NEVER leaves the house without her little baby tucked tightly into her Galco shoulder holster. She absolutely loves that pistol and can shoot it like nobodies business.