Here comes the night hunting changes

[rainshadow1]

Fred, Who are the "Good bunch of folks..." ? Sounds like that "bunch" need our support.

[billythekidrock]

Here is what I do know.

Lori Preuss has been very accommodating and up front with this issue and is willing to keep people informed.

I would suggest two things.
1. Give her some time to send out the draft before sending anymore comments.
2. Get organized with Adnahounsman and the new predator group. He has been in constant contact with Lori and is working on a few things.

[cwuwildcat]

I wonder how and why they picked the 11 states they did?

[Kain]

Here is what I do know.

Lori Preuss has been very accommodating and up front with this issue and is willing to keep people informed.

I would suggest two things.
1. Give her some time to send out the draft before sending anymore comments.
2. Get organized with Adnahounsman and the new predator group. He has been in constant contact with Lori and is working on a few things.

I am not interested in compromising ANYTHING or "working with" them on anything.  So waiting for the draft is not necessary.  I am so pissed off right now I can barely contain myself from writing how I really feel.  I know that wouldnt do any good.  I will look into the new group further but if they are interested in anything other than TOTAL opposition to any more restrictions they are not for me.

[rainshadow1]

Not that I don't know what you're feeling, Kain (welcome to dealing with bureacracy)... but if you don't control that, then what they'll do is go ahead and do whatever they want, without any input. It's a tightrope...

[billythekidrock]

Here is what I do know.

Lori Preuss has been very accommodating and up front with this issue and is willing to keep people informed.

I would suggest two things.
1. Give her some time to send out the draft before sending anymore comments.
2. Get organized with Adnahounsman and the new predator group. He has been in constant contact with Lori and is working on a few things.

I am not interested in compromising ANYTHING or "working with" them on anything.  So waiting for the draft is not necessary.  I am so pissed off right now I can barely contain myself from writing how I really feel.  I know that wouldnt do any good.  I will look into the new group further but if they are interested in anything other than TOTAL opposition to any more restrictions they are not for me.

So you would pester them with emails and piss them off over a draft without even seeing it? That will not be very productive.

All I am saying is lets get our ducks in a row and have all the facts so we can cover all the bases.

[Kain]

Not that I don't know what you're feeling, Kain (welcome to dealing with bureacracy)... but if you don't control that, then what they'll do is go ahead and do whatever they want, without any input. It's a tightrope...

I hear ya.  If only a few people do it I totally agree but if we all do it then I think they will have to listen.  The problem with compromising anything is this:  They want to ban night hunting, we want to keep it.  So we dont loose ALL opportunity we compromise and accept some new restrictions.  This means that we have lost and they have gained.  Heads they win tails we loose.  Am I wrong?  I will wait until I calm down to contact them further but I doubt I will change my mind and I hope the rest of you feel the same way.  

[Kain]

Here is what I do know.

Lori Preuss has been very accommodating and up front with this issue and is willing to keep people informed.

I would suggest two things.
1. Give her some time to send out the draft before sending anymore comments.
2. Get organized with Adnahounsman and the new predator group. He has been in constant contact with Lori and is working on a few things.

I am not interested in compromising ANYTHING or "working with" them on anything.  So waiting for the draft is not necessary.  I am so pissed off right now I can barely contain myself from writing how I really feel.  I know that wouldnt do any good.  I will look into the new group further but if they are interested in anything other than TOTAL opposition to any more restrictions they are not for me.

So you would pester them with emails and piss them off over a draft without even seeing it? That will not be very productive.

All I am saying is lets get our ducks in a row and have all the facts so we can cover all the bases.

Absolutely I would.  And if we all did the same it might make a difference.  But I can already see that we will play their game and we will get the short end AGAIN.  And when they want to do a similar thing in the future it will be the same.  (cougar, bear, hounds) Again and again until there is very little left worth even fighting for.   I dont know why anyone would worry about pissing them off when they clearly dont care about pissing US off.  Like I said I will wait until I calm down to decide what I will do.

[billythekidrock]

Not that I don't know what you're feeling, Kain (welcome to dealing with bureacracy)... but if you don't control that, then what they'll do is go ahead and do whatever they want, without any input. It's a tightrope...

I agree. Especially since it is still in the draft phase.

Now, if it were a proposal that caught us off guard or had no input into, instead of a draft.......then yes, I say email them right and left.

[billythekidrock]

Here is what I do know.

Lori Preuss has been very accommodating and up front with this issue and is willing to keep people informed.

I would suggest two things.
1. Give her some time to send out the draft before sending anymore comments.
2. Get organized with Adnahounsman and the new predator group. He has been in constant contact with Lori and is working on a few things.

I am not interested in compromising ANYTHING or "working with" them on anything.  So waiting for the draft is not necessary.  I am so pissed off right now I can barely contain myself from writing how I really feel.  I know that wouldnt do any good.  I will look into the new group further but if they are interested in anything other than TOTAL opposition to any more restrictions they are not for me.

So you would pester them with emails and piss them off over a draft without even seeing it? That will not be very productive.

All I am saying is lets get our ducks in a row and have all the facts so we can cover all the bases.

Absolutely I would.  And if we all did the same it might make a difference.  But I can already see that we will play their game and we will get the short end AGAIN.  And when they want to do a similar thing in the future it will be the same.  (cougar, bear, hounds) Again and again until there is very little left worth even fighting for.   I dont know why anyone would worry about pissing them off when they clearly dont care about pissing US off.  Like I said I will wait until I calm down to decide what I will do.

Read everything again....slowly. This is a draft. We have a chance for input and Lori Preuss is not hiding anything like the others have in the past.

Do you really think that I would stand for this? Do you think that I would steer you, or any site member wrong?

This time last year a F&W site member told us that there was nothing we could do about losing bear season in August. I took that as a challenge and posted a short message and commission members emails on a dozen hunting sites.  F&W decided to look at it for a year and only took away a couple weeks in a few areas.

I am not saying that I am responsible for saving August, as I know that there were lots of people involved. What I am saying is that I know the power of the people/email and I understand where you are coming from.

I also know the F&W and if they can take it from us or charge us for it...they will.

We can't act like neanderthals....we need to be organized and polite. Otherwise we will lose our opportunity and our credibility.

[Kain]

Why do I need to see the draft to know that I dont think there should be any changes?  Do you guys think there needs to be some changes made?  Maybe I am being unreasonable...very possible.  Do we need more permits?  Do we need night vision and lights for deer and elk?  Do we need more weapon restrictions for hunters?  Is it OK to shoot a cougar out of a tree with a rifle during the day but not shoot a coyote on the ground with the same weapon at night?  I am open to listening to you guys, if you really think I should keep an open mind.  If they get the idea that we are willing to look at their "draft" that we will be open to it at all. 

Bear hunting is a prime example of what I am talking about.  Sure we won that round because we came together as a group.  And even though we lost a huge chunk of cougar season, somehow we think we won something.  But then they turn around the very next year and reduced the season by 2 weeks in some units anyway.  They dont respect us no matter how polite we are.  If they want something they will push it through.  Why?....Because we let them.

[carpsniperg2]

 

[Bofire]

 :)Kain it is just another fight. You can try to rush in and expend energy swinging wildly and bravely only to get your a## kicked by an opponent who covers and or bobs and weaves.
We have to anticipate those "bobs and weaves" be a step ahead, that is hard when you are emotional/angry. I don't think we need changes either, right now we have a chance to convince them, wiht logic. Lets try.
Let us gather data explore other states, other studies, quote them...
and if that does not work




FIRE BOMBS

Carl

[Kain]

Are you sure we cant just call them racists, rednecks, knuckle draggers, and nazis, lawyer up, threaten lawsuits and get them to cower in the corner.  That always works against us.  
I hear you guys, I do.  I never said I was gonna write them nasty emails or start cussing them out or anything.  I just think it would be a good idea to let them know that we (as a united group) are not open to any discussion if it includes restricting ANY more hunting.  Then if there is anything in the "draft" that we think is reasonable (doubtful) we could "reluctantly" give ground.  But they already have the idea that we are somehow open to some more restrictions as long as the ALL MIGHTY DEPARTMENT leaves us some scraps.

[billythekidrock]

:)Kain it is just another fight. You can try to rush in and expend energy swinging wildly and bravely only to get your a## kicked by an opponent who covers and or bobs and weaves.
We have to anticipate those "bobs and weaves" be a step ahead, that is hard when you are emotional/angry. I don't think we need changes either, right now we have a chance to convince them, wiht logic. Lets try.
Let us gather data explore other states, other studies, quote them...
and if that does not work




FIRE BOMBS

Carl

That has got to be one of the best posts this year.