Legal gun for turkey?

[Atroxus]

I was wondering would it be legal to use an over/under .22/20ga for hunting turkey? Or would it be illegal since it has ability to fire a round thats not legal for hunting turkeys?

[Bob33]

If the .22 is not loaded, and you have no .22 ammo on you, I think you would be OK.

[duckaholic]

i bought one of these a few years ago from a guy who's daughter hunted turkey with it, he sold it to get her upgraded to a 12 ga.

[BPturkeys]

Sounds like a ticket waiting to happen. When I say waiting, I mean waiting for the first game warden to catch you. In my opinion you would be using an illegal weapon.
But one more word of advise, don't get your legal advise from a hunting forum.

[bobcat]

It's a shotgun, it's legal. Pretty simple.

[turkeydancer]

I would contact the WDFW and get it in writing ... bottom line protect yourself !   

[Bob33]

Here is why I think it is legal (or at least why you will not be cited), if you do not have .22 ammunition in your possession.

A few months ago, a student in one of our hunter education classes asked if it was legal to hunt with a shotgun capable of holding four rounds.  Of course we said "no".  He then proceeded to tell us that he had just purchased a new Remington 870 3 1/2" 12 gauge shotgun, and the magazine held THREE 2 3/4" shells.  I didn't believe him at first, but I went to the Remington website and confirmed his story.

Legal or not?  I asked several enforcement officers, and went to the Lt. level of WDFW Enforcement.  The verdict: technically the gun is not legal, because it is capable of holding four rounds. However, if the hunter only has 3 1/2" ammunition in his possession, he will not be cited.  If he has 2 3/4" ammunition in his possession, he will be cited.

Of course, you may encounter an enforcement officer that disagrees and cites you anyway.  I think you would have a very strong case if you did not have .22 ammunition.

It is not illegal to have a .22 in your possession.  It is illegal to HUNT with it. How can you be hunting without ammunition? 

[Atroxus]

That makes sense Bob. Thanks for the info.

[KimberRich]

Here is why I think it is legal (or at least why you will not be cited), if you do not have .22 ammunition in your possession.

A few months ago, a student in one of our hunter education classes asked if it was legal to hunt with a shotgun capable of holding four rounds.  Of course we said "no".  He then proceeded to tell us that he had just purchased a new Remington 870 3 1/2" 12 gauge shotgun, and the magazine held THREE 2 3/4" shells.  I didn't believe him at first, but I went to the Remington website and confirmed his story.

Legal or not?  I asked several enforcement officers, and went to the Lt. level of WDFW Enforcement.  The verdict: technically the gun is not legal, because it is capable of holding four rounds. However, if the hunter only has 3 1/2" ammunition in his possession, he will not be cited.  If he has 2 3/4" ammunition in his possession, he will be cited.

Of course, you may encounter an enforcement officer that disagrees and cites you anyway.  I think you would have a very strong case if you did not have .22 ammunition.

It is not illegal to have a .22 in your possession.  It is illegal to HUNT with it. How can you be hunting without ammunition? 

Speaking of this..  Has anyone ever been stopped and questioned about their magazine capacity??  I've ran into a few game wardens in the field and never once was I asked about magazine capacity.

[bobcat]

Yes, while duck hunting. They checked my shotgun's magazine to see if it would hold more than 2 shells.

[KimberRich]

Yes, while duck hunting. They checked my shotgun's magazine to see if it would hold more than 2 shells.

How did they do it?  Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ??   I've always just got the "can i see your license" and "have you got anything"..  from them in the past.  Now that I've said that I'm sure I'll get checked this fall! 

[carpsniperg2]

i would call and ask i would not say one way or another.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

As long as you do not have the .22 ammo on you, you are legal.
 

[bobcat]

Yes, while duck hunting. They checked my shotgun's magazine to see if it would hold more than 2 shells.

How did they do it?  Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ??   I've always just got the "can i see your license" and "have you got anything"..  from them in the past.  Now that I've said that I'm sure I'll get checked this fall! 

This was probably 20 years ago, so it's hard to remember exactly how he did it, but he did take the gun from me and check it himself. I can't remember if he actually put shotgun shells in the magazine to see how many would fit? Actually, it seems like he had some type of a gauge that he stuck in the magazine to measure how far it would go in. Somebody on here will probably have a better idea of how they normally do it. The last 15 years or so I've done more pheasant hunting than any other kidn of bird hunting and I've never had a warden check me for anything, not even a license.    

[Bob33]

How did they do it?  Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ?? 

They do not load the gun.  The officer has a gauge that he inserts in the magazine.  If it does not hit the plug, then the magazine is too long.

[bobcat]

As long as you do not have the .22 ammo on you, you are legal.
 

What about having 22 shells in your pocket but not in the gun? That should be ok as far as I'm concerned. If the gun is not loaded, you aren't hunting.

[baldopepper]

I don't suspect any of the above opinions are going to have much credibility in front of a judge.  Officer in the field is possibly going to cite you and let the "system" work it out.  Easiest thing to do is call wdwf and if someone tells you it's legal write down their name and when you spoke to them so that you could give a field officer the info..  Right now some of the counties are financially strapped and looking for ways to make money and might fine you for the money involved.  (I'm hearing rumors of speeding tickets being given in Eastern Wa.  at 4-5 miles over the limit these days for that very reason)   

[Bob33]

That might work, but you could encounter an enforcement officer that doesn't agree with the officer that gave you the information that said it is legal.  The law is clear: you cannot hunt turkeys with a .22.  What is not clear is whether or not you are "hunting", and that is a judgment call.

I have had officers give two opposite interpretations of the same law.  My example earlier of the four cartridge shotgun: some officers told me they would cite, some told me they would not.

No matter what you have written down, an officer in the field may cite you.

[Skyvalhunter]

It all depends on how the officer feels that day. Just becareful of those clowns out there that are county cops/forest service/wardens combined. We have one of those in my neck of the woods and he is a total A$$hole.

[bobcat]

If you have a gun with a shotgun barrel loaded, and a 22 rifle barrel that is not loaded, it should be obvious that you are hunting with a shotgun. I can't imagine any warden writing someone up for that.

What if you want to carry a 22 pistol while turkey hunting with a shotgun? Just because you have a handgun strapped to your belt does not mean you are hunting with it.

[rougheye]

Ive been checked and the officer asked me for 2 shells and my gun  

[TONTO]

 I was checked last year while duck hunting, the warden had me unload, then ran some sort of wand over my shells to chech lead free, then had me reload and check if I could put a third shell in my benelli's tube. This was all after she walked right through my spred and freaked out my dog.

[Bob33]

If you have a gun with a shotgun barrel loaded, and a 22 rifle barrel that is not loaded, it should be obvious that you are hunting with a shotgun. I can't imagine any warden writing someone up for that.

What if you want to carry a 22 pistol while turkey hunting with a shotgun? Just because you have a handgun strapped to your belt does not mean you are hunting with it.

Right, but you start to approach a judgment line, and that's why no one can say with certainty what an enforcement officer will do.  If you have a .22 strapped to your belt, and a dead turkey with a single hole through its head...then you might have some explaining to do.  

I tend to believe that most enforcement officers are good people who want to do the right thing.  There are exceptions, but I don't choose to live my life believing they are out to get me.

Hunt with your over under, but don't carry any .22 ammo.  You should be fine.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

As long as you do not have .22 shells, they cannot cite you for hunting with a .22
If you have the shells, then you have "cause" for an officer to cite you.

[bobcat]

Another thing...it's not like a 22 rifle is really much of an improvement over shotgun for hunting turkeys, especially if it's just a combination 22 rifle/shotgun with open sights. I would maybe look at it a little differently if the gun was a 223/shotgun. With a 223 you'd have the ability to reach out to at least 250 yards and kill a turkey with a body shot. With a 22 I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting any further than I would with a shotgun.

[Bob33]

Right, Bobcat.  That's where judgment comes in.  An officer should know that.  Personally, I just would not carry ammunition because then it is even clearer what my intentions are.

[duckaholic]

as far as the whole .22 ammo go's i think it would be like any other bird hunting, cant have lead in possession, so if you don't have the .22 you should be fine 

and for the checking of your shotguns, i get checked at least 3 times a season and every time i have been checked the officer asked for my gun then unloads it, him/her self then will try to load the mag. tube with all three rounds and then will load the gun up as it was and hand it back to me. 

[bobcat]

Maybe the "magazine gauges" are in short supply and the rookies have to use the old fashioned method of checking for a plug.  

 

[haus]

I was checked last year while duck hunting, the warden had me unload, then ran some sort of wand over my shells to chech lead free, then had me reload and check if I could put a third shell in my benelli's tube. This was all after she walked right through my spred and freaked out my dog.

well wasn't that just nice and polite of her 

[garyltbh]

i would for sure get ahold of wdfw i no a guy that used a 223/20ga and got a ticket he said he didnt have any 223 amo with him but he still recieved a ticket and ended up haveing to pay the ticket he was turkey hunting also

[Bob33]

Maybe the "magazine gauges" are in short supply and the rookies have to use the old fashioned method of checking for a plug.  

 

Actually, I think the issue is the multiple shotgun shell lengths.  Now that there are 3 1/2" chambers, the officers want to know if you can load three of your cartridges into the magazine.  It's not as simple as it used to be.  If you can load three of your 2 3/4" shells, you're busted, even if the magazine will only allow two 3 1/2".