Preference point opinion?

[bobcat]

Yes, Idaho's system is good. Even if they could restrict a person to only applying for one OIL species per year, and applying for either deer OR elk. In addition to requiring the money up front. But instead, the WDFW went in the opposite direction and decided to increase the number of things a person can apply for every year. No doubt the only reason for it is to bring in more money.

[hornhunter]

Hey everyone. i just put in for the washington special draws and was wondering how many points any of you had when you drew a moose, goat or sheep tag? I have seven pref. points for all three and am wondering if it will actually help or is it just blind luck?

I know someone who has been putting in for Moose, goat and sheep for 30+ years and has never drawn. I also knew a guy a few years back that drew moose with 1 point.

LUCK of the drawmy friend. Luck of the draw.

I cant even draw a decent elk tag with 7 points. I gave up on moose, goat and sheep along time ago!

30 years huh?  Looks like he was putting in before the system even existed.  Or sombody is

Just because the point system didn't exist, doesn't mean people couldn't apply for hunts.  How else do people have multiple WA goats?  Maybe you should check your facts before you call people liars. 

Thanks guy! The people that have multiple Wa goats are really old or dead.  Long ago it was an over the counter Tag.  Maybe you should check your facts

[Bob33]

Washington went to permit only for mountain goats in 1967.  Help me out with the math: is that more than 30 years ago?

[hornhunter]

guess Im an Idiot

[Romulus]

Idaho has a decent system for the people trying to draw the tags but a poor system for making revenue off of their animals. People act they would like Idaho's system but Idaho has a lot more tags to work with than we do. We have to few tags and to many applicants. Almost all the best hunts are 1 in 30 odds or much worse even for deer and elk. It does not matter what system is in place most guys will never draw tags unless they go for lower tier hunts. And once in a lifetime should be changed to once in a thousand years but that is the true chance. The only way to increase odds is to increase the fees for putting in but most say that is an elitist view making hunting a rich mans sport. If you had to pay $200 to put in for a trophy deer or elk tag with no refund and then you had to pay extra for a trophy tag once you drew odds would increase because only those truly serious about it would put in. Our state opts to get a little from everybody instead of making people choose. Sheep was once $250 to apply and then that was your tag fee if you drew. Check the odds when that was going on. In todays money that would probably be $500-$1000 to apply for sheep. I bet odds would be reasonable if we had to front $500 for sheep. Wait, we front much more than that in other states and even as nonresidents with quotas in place our odds are much better than here at home. I think the system could be much better than it is but I see things only through the eyes of a trophy hunter. I dont care about the antlerless or meat type hunts. And I certainly dont like letting guys who were perfectly happy killing a cow and burning their points now being able to accrue points to take my future tags.

[Curly]

The only way to increase odds is to increase the fees for putting in but most say that is an elitist view making hunting a rich mans sport.

I agree with much of what you said.  But the other way to increase odds is to increase the number of permits available.  If WDFW would allow more liberal predator hunting seasons and , reduce the number of cow and doe permits, get tougher on poachers, etc... then maybe we could have more animals in this state to support more permits.

[Alan K]

I would NOT want Idaho's draw system.  I like to know that I have my name in the hat on each of the draws every year, even with a reduced chance of drawing.  

I'll take my 1/2000 or so chance at the OIL species so that I can keep on putting in for my deer and elk tags and draw them every 5-6 years.  I might get drawn for them, I might not.  I know that I can still go to Canada and blast a moose on a meat hunt for around 4k, or even goat and sheep for 10-15k if I wanted to take one that bad.

[bobcat]

The only way to increase odds is to increase the fees for putting in but most say that is an elitist view making hunting a rich mans sport.

I agree with much of what you said.  But the other way to increase odds is to increase the number of permits available.  If WDFW would allow more liberal predator hunting seasons and , reduce the number of cow and doe permits, get tougher on poachers, etc... then maybe we could have more animals in this state to support more permits.

Another way to increase the number of permits is to do away with the general seasons.   

[Alan K]

Another thing sort of on the side. . . I really wish they'd publish the number of names in the hat for each hunt rather than the number of applicants.  The number of applicants doesn't tell you anything about the draw odds really, because each applicant could have their name in the hat anywhere from like 1-250 times.  (I'd like to see that number for everything, not just the OIL)

Once you saw the number of names in the hat you can just figure how many times your name is in the hat and divide that by the total and have your true odds of drawing.

Another thing I'd like to know is how they figure if someone is drawn on say a third choice over someone with the same hunt as a number one choice.  I'm curious what sort of reduction in your odds of drawing is for your second, third, or fourth choice is.  I know it's not the same odds to draw your third choice as your first, otherwise there would be just as many third choices drawn as first across the board on average.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I would NOT want Idaho's draw system.  I like to know that I have my name in the hat on each of the draws every year, even with a reduced chance of drawing.  

I'll take my 1/2000 or so chance at the OIL species so that I can keep on putting in for my deer and elk tags and draw them every 5-6 years.  I might get drawn for them, I might not.  I know that I can still go to Canada and blast a moose on a meat hunt for around 4k, or even goat and sheep for 10-15k if I wanted to take one that bad.

I agree, I wish "some people" on here would quit equating the amount that you are willing to spend with how serious of a hunter you are.   
being able to outprice your competition so that there are fewer people appplying to increase your odds of drawing....
you dont need to hunt washington, go to Canada, or Alaska, or Idaho, or whereever you can afford.
I am a working class citizen, with a family of 5 to support.
I dont expect to get drawn, but I still like dreaming.
I have been applying for 30+ years, and used to scrape up the money to apply, then wait for my refund check.
Thinking that going back to that system, or raising fees, or almost all of your suggestions to increase the odds of being drawn, without having more tags is like saying, if you cannot afford to pay, you dont deserve to hunt.
I dont buy lottery tickets because I cannot afford to throw the money away, som of you guys should get in on it, you have a better chance of winning !!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Another thing I'd like to know is how they figure if someone is drawn on say a third choice over someone with the same hunt as a number one choice.  I'm curious what sort of reduction in your odds of drawing is for your second, third, or fourth choice is.  I know it's not the same odds to draw your third choice as your first, otherwise there would be just as many third choices drawn as first across the board on average.

What that means, if your number comes up, you get the permit for your first choice, unless all permits for that hunt have been given out.
then you get the permit for your second choice, unless all permits for that hunt have been given out.
then the third..etc, if you were selected (your application) and all the hunt choices you made have been given out, then you are S.O.L.
That is one reason you should think carefully about your choices.

[bobcat]

Another thing I'd like to know is how they figure if someone is drawn on say a third choice over someone with the same hunt as a number one choice.  I'm curious what sort of reduction in your odds of drawing is for your second, third, or fourth choice is.  I know it's not the same odds to draw your third choice as your first, otherwise there would be just as many third choices drawn as first across the board on average.

Odds for a particular hunt are not any different as a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice.

[Bob33]

Washington is rather unusual in the way it treats hunt choices.  Most western states separate the applications by choice.  For example, Colorado draws everyone’s first choice before anyone’s second, third, or fourth choice is awarded.  Second, third, and fourth choices do not generate or use preference points. In Idaho, everyone’s first choice is awarded before anyone’s second choice is awarded. In states like that, it means that your first choice is essentially your only choice unless one of your other choices is for an undersubscribed hunt (more tags available than applicants).

Washington does not treat applications that way.  Washington draws a name out of the hat, and goes through all that applicant's choices before drawing another name.  As previously stated, the process starts with an applicant's first choice: is a permit still available?  If yes, then award the permit and process is done.  If a permit is not available for the first choice, look at the second choice: is a permit still available?  If yes, award the permit.  If not, move to the third choice.  The process continues until a permit is awarded, or all choices have been considered.  If no permit is drawn, the applicant is automatically awarded a bonus point.  Again, that is different from some states like Montana and Wyoming.  In those states you must pay extra on your application to obtain a bonus point if not selected.

The reason that more first choices are awarded is simple: they are consided first.  It is possible to draw on any of the choices.

[Alan K]

Thanks for the clarification!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

What he said (Bob33)