Total LOSS!

[MtnMuley]

I respect your views bobcat, but I also disagree here.  Even on a bad year like last year in Okanogan County, I could easily kill a lot of birds.  However, most (nearly all) of the birds I saw and killed were mature birds.  Other areas in the state seem to be doing fine.  This is strictly North Central Washing I am referring to.

[tlbradford]

I have to disagree as well.  Especially in the dry areas where the grouse will concentrate on spots with water.  You can locate large groups in good and bad years.  A couple of guys can do some real damage if they so choosed.  That would mean killing lets say 20% of the birds in that area, on a bad year, but maybe only 5% on a good year. 

[croix]

i'm with bobcat on this one. i think the scenario where friends and family hunt or don't hunt based on my experience is a little bit of a stretch, but the rest makes perfect sense to me. this part is the most convincing argument to me:

The current Sep. 1 to Dec. 31 hunting season structure has been in place since 1987. A daily bag limit of 3 of any of the three species was in place from 1952 to 2009 when the bag limit was raised to four. This increase in the bag limit was not made in response to increasing populations, but rather in response to increasing opportunity. Since hunters average approximately 0.4 grouse per day hunted, which has been the case for over 50 years, increasing the bag limit should not impact overall populations.

if the average is .4 grouse per day for the last 50 years, then it seems to me the limit could be 1 or 20 and the same amount will be taken on average. there are of course exceptions wherein one or two guys really have them dialed in and can put a hurt on them even in a bad year, but the overall average for the state would likely remain the same. i don't know that i can explain it any differently, but i smell what your steppin in bobcat.

[tlbradford]

You guys are absolutely correct for statewide averages.  No arguement there.  However, all game should be managed in a smaller regional scale if the resources are available. 

[Viszla]

After thinking on this I have come to conclusion that it all depends on what you call good hunting.  Myself, if I average .4 birds a day throughout the season, I don't call that good hunting.  In the past few years I have noticed the grouse numbers have been going down.  I used to be able to pretty much limit out every weekend but now I have to work hard just for one or two.  As mentioned by mtnmuley, I am also speaking of the Okanogan and I have also noticed the decrease in young birds.  The focus needs to be on getting the grouse numbers up and it aint going to happen by increaseing bag limits and season lengths.  As I already mentioned there is no excuse for having the season running 4 months solid and right through deer and elk seasons.

[bobcat]

Well, then maybe grouse should be managed by GMU and hunted by permit only.     How about having a punchcard that allows so many birds, then you have to buy another (for $90 like the pheasant license)  Good ideas here WDFW, are you taking notes?  

[Viszla]

Why not just shorten the season?

[bobcat]

Why not just shorten the season?

It wouldn't have a significant difference in the harvest. Don't you think most grouse are killed in September and October? How much would the harvest be reduced if the season was cut from 4 months to 2 months? I'd guess about 1%. What you have to realize, is that predators and the weather have a lot more affect on grouse numbers than we do.

[Skyvalhunter]

You have to realize grouse are a cycle bird. They seem to be on the going up part of the cycle atleast in the areas I hunt and venture in. I am not sure why the WDFW increased the limit. I have a dog and hunt hard so I don't have a problem getting my limit. But I have noticed that the mice population is definately on the rise too. Thus the preditor population is also soo to rise.

[MtnMuley]

What you have to realize, is that predators and the weather have a lot more affect on grouse numbers than we do.

Absolutely.  The number of grouse feather piles I found in the 2500'-4000' elevations this spring shed hunting, was unreal.   10-15 piles a day, several times this spring.

[ICEMAN]

I feel that hunters should have to harvest one coyote before they are issued their grouse punch card. One yote per 10 grouse. Want more birds, go kill another dog.

[DeerThug]

I ahve not seen one batch of pheasant or quail chicks.  and with the hen ducks - they ony had one or two chicks. 
This is all around the lower yakima valley - bird hunting is not ever going to get back to what it was when i was a kid.

[sako223]

Quail chicks are still hatching, just saw two fresh broods yesterday. This has been a great year. Saw a few pheasants last week. Took some picks about a week ago of the largest brood ever 17.

[87Ford]

Nice!  Me likes to shoot quail.   I hope it turns out to be a good year after all.

[Gutpile]

I just saw a fresh brood yesterday too. Those quail are like bunnies. they just keep cranking them out. Wish pheasants did that.