Educate Me

[wabow]

or a least point me to some good information. I have not as much as seen a muzzleloader in more than 30 years. My dad had  "traditional" rifles the ones where you carried your powder in the little horn, balls in the little leather pouch and wadding in a pretty copper tube. I'd like to get a rifle in the next few weeks and use it for hunting eventually. Ive read that WA has some funky laws and that muzzleloaders have really changed over the years.
I'd like to get a modern rifle. Would someone point me to some good reference material and or explain these new guns to me. If its to much of a headache or is to difficult to explain, point me to a good shop that doesnt mind teaching me.

Thanks
Don

[Curly]

I think Bob's in Longview has a good selection of legal for WA muzzleloaders.  Basically, it sounds like you want an inline ML.  There are a few that are legal in WA.......  Knight Bighorn and TC Blackdiamond being the most popular, I think.

Basically, you can't use 209 primers and the nipple needs to be open to the elements.

[Austrian Hunter]

Muzzleloader Regulations
1. Definitions.
a. Muzzleloader: A firearm that is loaded from
the muzzle and uses black powder or a
black powder substitute as recommended
by the manufacturer for use in all
muzzleloading firearms.
b. A muzzleloading firearm shall be
considered loaded if a powder charge and
a projectile, either shot or single projectile
are in the barrel and the barrel or breech is
capped or primed.
2. It is unlawful to hunt wildlife using a
muzzleloading firearm that does not meet the
following specifications.
a. A muzzleloading shotgun or rifle must have
a single or double barrel, rifled or smoothbored.
b. A muzzleloading shotgun or rifle used
for deer must be .40 caliber or larger.
Buckshot size #1 or larger may be used in a
smoothbore of .60 caliber or larger for deer.
c. A muzzleloading shotgun, rifle, or handgun
used for all other big game must be .45
caliber or larger.
d. Persons lawfully hunting small game with a
double barrel, muzzleloading shotgun may
keep both barrels loaded.
e. A muzzleloading handgun must have a
single or double barrel of at least eight
inches, must be rifled, and must be
capable of being loaded with forty-five
grains or more of black powder or blackpowder substitute per the manufacturer's
recommendations.
f. A muzzleloading handgun used for big
game must be .45 caliber or larger.
g. A handgun designed to be used with black
powder, including black powder percussion
revolvers, can be used to hunt forest
grouse, cottontail rabbits, and snowshoe
hares.
3. In addition to the above requirements, it is
unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading
hunting season using a firearm that does
not meet the following specifications for a
muzzleloader. As in the past sabots are allowed.
Any type of projectile is allowed.
A modern handgun may be carried for personal
protection. Modern handguns cannot be used
to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big
game during a big game hunting season for
muzzleloading firearms.
a. Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original style
percussion caps that fit on the nipple and
are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to
the weather" means the percussion cap or
the frizzen must be visible and not capable
of being enclosed by an integral part of the
weapon proper. Primers designed to be
used in modern cartridges are not legal.
b. Sights must be open, peep, or of other open
sight design. Fiber optic sights are legal.
Telescopic sights or sights containing glass
are prohibited.
c. It is unlawful to have any electrical device
or equipment attached to a muzzleloading
firearm while hunting.
d. Those persons lawfully hunting big game
with a double barrel muzzleloader may only
keep one barrel loaded.
4. Hunters with disabilities who meet the definition
of being visually impaired in WAC 232-12-828
may receive a special use permit that would
allow the use of scopes or other visual aids.
A disabled hunter permit holder in possession
of a special use permit that allows the use of
a scope or visual aid may hunt game birds or
game animals during muzzleloader seasons.
Contact the Department’s ADA coordinator for
further information.
5. Muzzleloading firearms used during a modern
firearm season are not required to meet ignition,
sight, or double barrel restrictions.

[Bob33]

Page 70 of the 2010 Big Game regulations.  You can pick up a copy just about anywhere, or read them online.

As stated, the big issues are that you cannot use shotgun primers and ignition must be "exposed to the weather".  Sights must be open.

[Curly]

Oh, and 50 cal is the most popular, therefore you will find the best selection of bullets if you go with a .50 cal.

[wabow]

Would it be ok to use a 209 primer gun with scope during modern season? I assume that is what this means.

5. Muzzleloading firearms used during a modern
firearm season are not required to meet ignition,
sight, or double barrel restrictions.



Don

[Curly]

Yes.  They just changed that for this year.  Previously they wouldn't allow scopes, 209 ignitions, or jacketed bullets, even during modern season.

[Ratdog68]

A Thompson Center Hawken or Renegade is still a venerable game killing rifle in .50 or .54 cal.  Just remember... although "carrying" your powder in a horn is ok... to LOAD... pour from your horn to a "powder measure" and THEN into the bore.  IF there's a hot ember still inside the barrel... you do NOT want your whole horn of powder exposed to the chance of going up in your face.  If Federal Way is a convenient drive for you... go see Larry at Wholesale Sports and talk to him about your desires/concerns.  He's good people and will do his best to take good care of you.

[washelkhntr]

Would it be ok to use a 209 primer gun with scope during modern season? I assume that is what this means.

5. Muzzleloading firearms used during a modern
firearm season are not required to meet ignition,
sight, or double barrel restrictions.



Don

Yes.  They just changed that for this year.  Previously they wouldn't allow scopes, 209 ignitions, or jacketed bullets, even during modern season.

They did not change that this year. It was changed in 2008. Look through the 2008 and 2009 regs... you could use your muzzleloader in modern season and were not required to meet ignition, sight, or double barrel restrictions. If using it during modern season.

[Curly]

Oh, yeah, I forgot they did change that last year finally about being able to use 209's and scopes during modern season.  I just checked the 2008 regs and it read like always, and the 2009 regs are where they changed it.

[carpsniperg2]

yep, i have a multi deer tag and will be hunting during archery with my trad bows untill mister big steps out then the x force will come out if he won't get inside 30 yards that is then i always muzzleload the early season then i might set up one of my smoke poles for modern with the 209 and scope then finish with my muzzle in the late like i always normaly hunt. "subject to change if mister big comes out during any of the early seasons "