Teachers and coaches

[ZEN]

Quick question.  The school district/state requires your prints if you're with the kids.  The state requires your prints if you want to carry concealed.  Is there a way to get printed once for both?  Thanks for any leads.  Worse case scenario you pay fees twice I guess.  Lame.

[ICEMAN]

Nope. Prints are submitted, search the databases for hits on criminal records, then returned to the agency submitting them, or destroyed. No image or record of your prints are kept by the state or the FBI, on this type of submission. Get arrested....they both keep them.... 

[ZEN]

So there's no angle on getting printed once for both?  Of course not.  "Pay twice.  We don't share".

[littletoes]

Yeppers..yas gots ta pay twice! They don't talk much between each other....at least not yet, unless you did something wrong, like said above.

[MikeWalking]

'fraid not.

Got printed when I enlisted, again for my CPL, again by DOL/ State Patrol for my State Guard License, again for Interpol to renew my GL.

Now Homeland Security wants'em again so I can keep the same assignment I've had since 9/11.

They also want my ss# and moms maiden name, an interview with my MD, my credit card-banking info, draft status? (I'm a vet and a 47yo diabetic think I'm still 1A?) every where I've worked/lived for 15 years back, detailed bios on 7 close friends, all trips out of the country including "quick weekends" to Canada (got about 100 of those to list, all those subversive square dance events ya'know) and more.

But the best part?

After I give all this info they want me to sign a release giving my consent for Homeland Security to give any and all information to any Government agency or employee that requests it forever.

Oh yeah, an agency with 3000 laptop computers lost/unaccounted for is gonna get all this 

[ZEN]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I've got nothing to hide accept maybe my pathetic bank statements.  I was just hoping to save a little coin. 

Mike, your privacy is in perrol.  Tread carefully.  A lot of that info could be very valuable for a sneak.  I was acctually pleased to hear from Iceman who said the prints are only used for cross reference in a background check and then returned to the agency that requested them or destroyed. 

Does the agency hang on to them?  I don't know?  With a clean record I'd think that'd be a lot of people's data to retain. Any more clarity on what happens to our personal information after we turn it in for, ie, a concealed carry permit?

[MikeWalking]

I've got nothing to hide accept maybe my pathetic bank statements

Join the club .

The Homeland Security request applies to all contractors with regular access to Federal office space. When the Manager of the building I'm assigned to saw it he went nuts. Even he, as Landlord to Federal Tenants has to fill it out. He compared the level of questioning to what you get as a nominee to a Cabinet level job. All that to be a $13 an hour Unarmed guard. Ya my SS# and Moms maiden name? I really want that out there. I already got one letter from the VA about my info being "lost" That's enough.  Oh well it's been 6+ years, time to try something else.

I don't remember giving all that much for my CPL about what you do to buy a gun. Hardly anything more than a couple signatures when the Army moved my security clearance up to Secret, course they already knew everything

[ZEN]

Still, are our names, address, prints, socials, etc,  on record somewhere once we've submitted them?  Aghain, I understand it all for a cross refenced background check but is that stuff kept?  Can't stay out of the machine forever I guess.

[EMPyre]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/fbi.biometrics/

Its not just your prints... FBI will be gathering EVERY unique detail about you, and keeping it.  55 million individulas prints already in IAFIS, I have a hard time beleive 20% of the population has arrests that necesitate storage of biometric data.

It ain't destroyed, they keep it.  They know who you are. 

[littletoes]

Zen,---- Why Sure! but what 'cha going to do? Not work? Go hungry?

the border patrol wanted my GRANDMOTHERS maiden name....get THAT one.

Since we started down this path.........what the hell? 

I was talking to the wife about "what if?", someday the guv-ment will be coming to the door and asking for my/our guns....she said "but thier in a safe" , i said "so what, they'll have the combo when they come..."


Any guv-ment LE agency can petition the safe company for the combo's, don't you doubt it. Just something to think about....

[ICEMAN]

.....It ain't destroyed, they keep it.  They know who you are. 

EMPyre, you are right, they keep your data when you are arrested. What is the problem with that?  So don't get arrested....sounds pretty easy to me...

[Ray]

Getting arrested does not equate to guilty of anything. That's the problem with that remark.

Having said that - I don't care if they have my prints. I have nothing to hide.

Also - I was arrested about 12 years ago for failing to show up in Tacoma for a court appearance. Of course I had already made a deferral to that court appearance because I was engaged in military operations. However the clerk failed to notify the judge and file the necessary paperwork. Basically I spent a day in jail and was finger printed. Then when I showed up later for that charge in the court everything was dropped because the military police were trying to trump up false charges. The prosecutor intended to follow through on everything until just seconds before speaking to the judge - when I told the prosecutor he would have no evidence and no witnesses that I gave alcohol to some under 21 adults. What happened was that I had a military roomate and he was the one who was giving the alcohol to the folks under 21 and I showed up at the same time as the military police in my own room because someone reported a disturbance.

Anyway - too much information but a couple of prime examples of shoddy police work and intimidating prosecutors who do not do their homework and finally a good reason for some folks to say they should not keep your records if you were vindicated. But then again there are plenty of losers that actually do commit crimes and get released because of lack of evidence. It's a hard line to walk. In the end I don't care that they have my prints like I mentioned previously...

[MikeWalking]

Still, are our names, address, prints, socials, etc,  on record somewhere once we've submitted them?  Again, I understand it all for a cross refrenced background check but is that stuff kept?  Can't stay out of the machine forever I guess

When discussing all the stuff Homeland Sec. wanted about us my Boss/Client made a crack about that last scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, the big warehouse full of stuff, nobody really knowing what it was or ever really looking at it....

As far as the "nothing to hide" comments go. I don't have anything to hide although there is some medical type stuff I wouldn't want made public. Having said that, Having nothing to hide is no reason to quietly let the Government ransack your life or not squawk about loss of the loss of legal protections.

[ZEN]

EMPyre, you are right, they keep your data when you are arrested. What is the problem with that?  So don't get arrested....sounds pretty easy to me...

I've never been arrested and nothing contravercial in my past.  So at the risk of redudancy here...if I apply for a carry licence are my prints and info kept?  It's a little blurry.  They keep em until you're arrested so they can keep em?

I'll read mike's link later.  Sorry if THAT explains THIS.

[ICEMAN]

Zen, fingerprints are submitted to the State Patrol to verify if you have a criminal history, then forwarded to the FBI for the same purpose. The submitting agency receives confirmation of a "hit" or "no hit" on a criminal history. The Sheriff then has the opportunity to views the criminal history to verify if your record would prohibit you from gun ownership. Your fingerprints are destroyed after they search state and national records. I am unsure whether your local sheriff retains your application for your permit.

[ZEN]

You guys are full of it...information that is.  Thanks for being so smart about stuff.  I mean it.  Thanks for always being on point.

[littletoes]

The term FREEDOM applies.

I don't want NOBODY going through my things, through my records, through my Anything. Period.
I don't even want to be asked for permission. They don't need it, it won't help....find another way.

If you think I'm "hiding" something, TOUGH.

If you wet the bed till you were 16, or you still jack off on occasion, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. And it shouldn't be public.

I DON'T need more rules and less rights to protect "me", I got a gun. Get out of my way when I need to use it.

Nuff said?