varmint rifle

[shorthair15]

i was looking at getting a 223 for yotes and maybe a occasional bobcat maybe even a cougar. it seems the ammo is pretty cheap for 223. what rifle would you recommend for this type of hunting. i looked local but they have very few. whats the best bang for the buck. i want some thing that will last i take good care of my guns. what type of scope would you use on a gun like this. i researched this topic in the search mode but there are alot of companies makeing predator rifles now. so i thought it would be best to try on here. thanks

[shoot-em-dead]

For the area of the State you live in I think you are correct with the .223. It is a great round for the animals you intend to hunt and the range you will have. For a scope it really depends on your preference and the depth of your wallet. I use a Bushnell 6x18x50 that costs around 150.00 on my 22-250 and it has been a great scope in my opinion. I would suggest you really spend some time at wholesale sports and Cabelas before you make your purchase so that you get what you like. 

[WonkyWapiti]

Shorthair, I'm in the same boat as you.  First off you've got to decide if you want a bolt action or a semi-auto.  For the semi-auto route I've been looking at the Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit rifle in .223.  Theres a crapload of bolt actions I've been thinking about as well.

[stumprat]

There are alot of great rifles out there. But probably the best bang for the buck would be. A Savage-Stevens in .223

[AWS]

223 makes an nice cartridge for predator hunting, there is a slew of different loads availible.  As for what rifle, bottom end but a good shooter Stevens 200 or Savage Edge, moving up, a CZ 527, Rem Model 7Pred., Savage Pred. Howa or Tikka, top end Coopers, Kimbers, Browning or TC Icon.

Heavy or light barrel, if your going to do any hiking with it I'd go light.

Scopes, I like to call predators so my shots are pretty close , 10 ft to 300 yrds.  I like scope with plenty of FOV 40+ ft.  MY favorite scopes are 1x4x20(4), 1.5x6x40(2) and 2.5x10x40 with the smaller varialbles on most of my guns and the 2.5x10 on a 22-250.

Well come to predator hunting.

AWS

[CastleRocker]

Look hard at buying a used rifle, as most people don't shoot enough to even break the dang barrel in.  

Best bang for your buck...I'd have to say a Stevens model 200.  They make a camo model now.  If I was on a tight budget, I would look for a used one, and do a Krylon camo job on it. Then put the best glass I could afford on it.  Both my brother-in-laws have them, both wear Leupolds, and they shoot unbelievably well.    I've shot them a lot while trying different loads in them, and I have to admit that out of the box they are the most accurate rifle for the money I've seen by far.  Personally I don't like Savage/Stevens rifles, but that's just me.

Also, you might want to look at those H&R Handi-rifles.  I've had several and although accuracy is hit and miss with them, they are an inexpensive single shot.  I've had one that I couldn't make shoot good enough to take out hunting, and I've had one that was a bug-holer.  (I wish I hadn't sold that one!)  The other three were in between as far as accuracy goes.

Myself, I caught the AR bug a couple years ago.  I bought two R-15's when they came out and made the mistake of putting them in the safe together, and yep, you guessed it!  They are breeding like rabbits!  If you decide to go that route, look hard at the "Bargin Bin" on the CMMG website.  I've got one of those now too, and they flat shoot (it was one of the "offspring" of my first two).      

Around here, a 223 is a good choice as shots are usually not what you will find on the East side of our state.

Good luck!

[carpsniperg2]

a very good rifle for mot a whole bunch of $ is the tikka. the 223 is pretty cheap gun to shoot and would be great for what you are talking about doing.

[wence5]

Don't overlook a used rifle. One of the best rifles I've ever owned was a used Remington 700 ADL in .22-250. She was an outstanding shooter, but I got the bug to move down to the .223 because of the price of ammo. Been kicking myself ever since. What ever you end up buying, don't skimp on glass. I would say you are going to have to spend over $150. Just my  :two cents:

[hoosier85]

I picked up a marlin xl7 for cheap and it has been one of my best purchases. You can pick them up for around $300 too. The one you want would be the marlin xs7? I think.. Its just the short action.

[Gringo31]

Find the right deal.  I would recommend a 204, 22-250, or a 223.  Price of ammo is a factor but most folks don't shoot that much to make much of a difference.  I'm a big fan of my glass being 4.5X14X50.

[COYOTE_KILLER]

im also in the market for a new .223  i have been doing lots of research and the best i can see
so far is the Remington r-15 bushmaster in .223 its a spendy sucker new they are starting at 1,100 bucks
just a bit of info for you.   good luck..

[chrisb]

AR-15. You can upgrade it later on with different caliber uppers on the same lower and there are more accessories and mods out there than you will know what to do with. Oly arms has some entry levels on the cheap too.

[trippledigitss]

I'm really new at all this and hunting in general but I've been using my MP15 for coyote hunting with an NC Star Mark III in 2-7x32 and I just bought a Nikon Coyote Special scope in 3-9x40. I havent hunted with the new scope yet but I sighted it in on my MP at the range last week and it is pretty sweet, dead-on at 100yds which is the max range at the place I went to. But even though everyone is saying AR is the way to go - and I really like my MP15 - I've still been looking at getting a BA varmit rifle and I really want one in full camo.

So I checked most all of the ones posted by AWS and a few more. The Savage Edge is really affordable at about 350-400 but I can only find them with a camo stock, not camo barrel too. I also have been considering the Savage (Stevens?) M10 Predator Package in full brush camo including stock, barrel, and scope and they are around 600-650. But I REALLY like the Howa Axiom (its a 1500 with different stock?) in the Ranchland Kings Desert Camo - I think thats the one I am going to go with at about $700 to $900.

But I have a few questions and maybe some of you guys can help. Why are bolt action rifles considered so much better and/or accurate than semi-autos? Also, the Axiom comes in 20" or 24" barrels and I cant decide which one to get. What are the benefits of a 20" vs 24" barrel? I was thinking the longer barrel must give better accuracy over longer distances? Is that correct?

[trippledigitss]

Oh - and I'm thinking about getting the Axiom in 22-250 just so I have a rifle in different caliber than my Mp15. I thought about .223 since I could use the same ammo in 2 rifles but kind of want to 'diversify' my rifles a bit. Also thought about .243 but they only make the Axiom with a 24" barrel in .243.

[whacker1]

I bought Howa 1500 in 22-250 for $400 last fall.  blued action and barrel on Hogue synthetic stock.  It shoots pretty darn well, just need to spend more time with it. 

[chrisb]

I'm really new at all this and hunting in general but I've been using my MP15 for coyote hunting with an NC Star Mark III in 2-7x32 and I just bought a Nikon Coyote Special scope in 3-9x40. I havent hunted with the new scope yet but I sighted it in on my MP at the range last week and it is pretty sweet, dead-on at 100yds which is the max range at the place I went to. But even though everyone is saying AR is the way to go - and I really like my MP15 - I've still been looking at getting a BA varmit rifle and I really want one in full camo.

So I checked most all of the ones posted by AWS and a few more. The Savage Edge is really affordable at about 350-400 but I can only find them with a camo stock, not camo barrel too. I also have been considering the Savage (Stevens?) M10 Predator Package in full brush camo including stock, barrel, and scope and they are around 600-650. But I REALLY like the Howa Axiom (its a 1500 with different stock?) in the Ranchland Kings Desert Camo - I think thats the one I am going to go with at about $700 to $900.

But I have a few questions and maybe some of you guys can help. Why are bolt action rifles considered so much better and/or accurate than semi-autos? Also, the Axiom comes in 20" or 24" barrels and I cant decide which one to get. What are the benefits of a 20" vs 24" barrel? I was thinking the longer barrel must give better accuracy over longer distances? Is that correct?

The MP15 is Smith and Wessons AR-15. They named it that for ... well i don't know but it's an AR.

24" barrel is going to give you a slight edge in the velocity and accuracy over the 20" but of course at the cost of weight.

As far as semi auto vs bolt action it has to do with (i'm pretty sure anyway but google would give you a for sure answer) the tighter tolerances of a bolt gun vs the semi auto.

[scout88]

i have the stevens 200 in 223 and out of the box even with the combo scope on it and cheap ammo i was amazed by how it shot. also have a stevens 200 in 300 WM with a bushnell trophy 3-9X40 and it is one heck of a shooter as well. bought the wife a savage 30-06 when i was on my mid tour leave and the first 3 rounds i put through it at about 100 yards were all touching about 1 inch to the right of dead center. so i am sold on the savage/stevens products they are awesome. not bad choices and they are easy on the wallet too.

[trippledigitss]

The MP15 is Smith and Wessons AR-15. They named it that for ... well i don't know but it's an AR.

24" barrel is going to give you a slight edge in the velocity and accuracy over the 20" but of course at the cost of weight.

As far as semi auto vs bolt action it has to do with (i'm pretty sure anyway but google would give you a for sure answer) the tighter tolerances of a bolt gun vs the semi auto.

Thanks for the info on the barrel length. What is strange it that the factory lists the 24" barrel version at 10.7# and the 20" slightly heavier at 11.2#. I wonder if that was a mixup as I would have thought it the other way around.  Yes I understand it is an AR Type rifle - The "MP" stands for Military& Police, I also have an MP40c pistol that has the same designation for Military & Police. As far as the AR Desigination, I dont know if its accurate but from what I read in researching on Wikipedia is that the AR stands for the manufacturer of the 1st AR-15, Armalite (not "assault rifle" as I & many others assumed) and is actually a trademark designation that belongs to Armalite so no other manufacturers can use it, hence the SW's MP, Remingtons 'R-15', Bushmaster's X-15. But Bushmaster does have an "AR-15" model dont they? Or maybe AR-15 "style"?? Anyway, not that it really matters much to me but just something I read, and since its on the internet, it has to be true right?? Thanks again!

[whacker1]

The MP15 is Smith and Wessons AR-15. They named it that for ... well i don't know but it's an AR.

24" barrel is going to give you a slight edge in the velocity and accuracy over the 20" but of course at the cost of weight.

As far as semi auto vs bolt action it has to do with (i'm pretty sure anyway but google would give you a for sure answer) the tighter tolerances of a bolt gun vs the semi auto.

Thanks for the info on the barrel length. What is strange it that the factory lists the 24" barrel version at 10.7# and the 20" slightly heavier at 11.2#. I wonder if that was a mixup as I would have thought it the other way around.  Yes I understand it is an AR Type rifle - The "MP" stands for Military& Police, I also have an MP40c pistol that has the same designation for Military & Police. As far as the AR Desigination, I dont know if its accurate but from what I read in researching on Wikipedia is that the AR stands for the manufacturer of the 1st AR-15, Armalite (not "assault rifle" as I & many others assumed) and is actually a trademark designation that belongs to Armalite so no other manufacturers can use it, hence the SW's MP, Remingtons 'R-15', Bushmaster's X-15. But Bushmaster does have an "AR-15" model dont they? Or maybe AR-15 "style"?? Anyway, not that it really matters much to me but just something I read, and since its on the internet, it has to be true right?? Thanks again!

Maybe the 20" barrel is bull barrel - larger diameter?   

[chrisb]

The MP15 is Smith and Wessons AR-15. They named it that for ... well i don't know but it's an AR.

24" barrel is going to give you a slight edge in the velocity and accuracy over the 20" but of course at the cost of weight.

As far as semi auto vs bolt action it has to do with (i'm pretty sure anyway but google would give you a for sure answer) the tighter tolerances of a bolt gun vs the semi auto.

Thanks for the info on the barrel length. What is strange it that the factory lists the 24" barrel version at 10.7# and the 20" slightly heavier at 11.2#. I wonder if that was a mixup as I would have thought it the other way around.  Yes I understand it is an AR Type rifle - The "MP" stands for Military& Police, I also have an MP40c pistol that has the same designation for Military & Police. As far as the AR Desigination, I dont know if its accurate but from what I read in researching on Wikipedia is that the AR stands for the manufacturer of the 1st AR-15, Armalite (not "assault rifle" as I & many others assumed) and is actually a trademark designation that belongs to Armalite so no other manufacturers can use it, hence the SW's MP, Remingtons 'R-15', Bushmaster's X-15. But Bushmaster does have an "AR-15" model dont they? Or maybe AR-15 "style"?? Anyway, not that it really matters much to me but just something I read, and since its on the internet, it has to be true right?? Thanks again!

If it's on the internet it's the truth. I have to run b/c i only have 4 minutes left to forward this email to 20 people or i'll have bad luck for 8 years and never find love or get rich.

I was really just trying to point out that your rifle should take most if not all after market AR parts. AR stands for Armalite Rifle which was the original manufacturer. Unfortunately the anti's have taken it to mean assault rifle which is why we as the gun community are being encouraged to refer to it as the "modern sporting rifle" and not an assault rifle. BTW if you dont have one yet get one of these. It made the fit of my Oly K16 so much tighter and i could tell a difference in accuracy as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#accuwedge____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

[Bscman]

I bought Howa 1500 in 22-250 for $400 last fall.  blued action and barrel on Hogue synthetic stock.  It shoots pretty darn well, just need to spend more time with it. 

+1
I have a howa in .223 and it's a great rifle. I paid $400 new for the rifle and scope combo. Aluminum pillar bedded hogue stock, the rifle itself IS a weatherby vanguard (came off the same production line), with an "okay" Nikko Stirling 3.5-10x44 with side focus. I also have one in .243. Both are sub MOA guns with handloads.

My favorite critter gitter, though, would be the AR15...mine seem to be breeding as well.... 
You will spend more in the beginning, but you'll soon realize they are very accurate and offer quick follow up shots when a whole gang of mutts come running. I was very anti-AR until my father got one...now I realize how truly versatile they are. DPMS and Olympic Arms can be had around $700-750, while delton and doublestar (both equally as good as the other two stated) run $650-700.
I've built 20" and 16" versions for under $550 with all the options you'd get on a $900+ rifle...just gotta do some research and watch the internet dealers for sales. 

[trippledigitss]

I bought Howa 1500 in 22-250 for $400 last fall.  blued action and barrel on Hogue synthetic stock.  It shoots pretty darn well, just need to spend more time with it. 

+1
I have a howa in .223 and it's a great rifle. I paid $400 new for the rifle and scope combo. Aluminum pillar bedded hogue stock, the rifle itself IS a weatherby vanguard (came off the same production line), with an "okay" Nikko Stirling 3.5-10x44 with side focus. I also have one in .243. Both are sub MOA guns with handloads.

My favorite critter gitter, though, would be the AR15...mine seem to be breeding as well.... 
You will spend more in the beginning, but you'll soon realize they are very accurate and offer quick follow up shots when a whole gang of mutts come running. I was very anti-AR until my father got one...now I realize how truly versatile they are. DPMS and Olympic Arms can be had around $700-750, while delton and doublestar (both equally as good as the other two stated) run $650-700.
I've built 20" and 16" versions for under $550 with all the options you'd get on a $900+ rifle...just gotta do some research and watch the internet dealers for sales. 

Very good to know on both of those rifles. I like the Howa rifles and the guy at the gun store said the same thing about them being a Weatherby. Plus I love the AR Style "defense rifle" (as my buddy tells me I am supposed to call them, but I like 'modern sport rifle' too), they are so cool looking and fun too shoot but can get expensive for sure. I was looking at getting a Stag (8 I think?) in 6.8SPC or a DPMS Sportical in .308, but dang $1000 bucks when its all said & done....

[carpsniperg2]

you could also check out the r-25 which is made by dpms for remington since they are sister companys and they are in 243/7mm-08 and 308 win. i love mine in 7mm-08 and mu cousin bought the 308 they are great rifles.

[trippledigitss]

The MP15 is Smith and Wessons AR-15. They named it that for ... well i don't know but it's an AR.

24" barrel is going to give you a slight edge in the velocity and accuracy over the 20" but of course at the cost of weight.

As far as semi auto vs bolt action it has to do with (i'm pretty sure anyway but google would give you a for sure answer) the tighter tolerances of a bolt gun vs the semi auto.

Thanks for the info on the barrel length. What is strange it that the factory lists the 24" barrel version at 10.7# and the 20" slightly heavier at 11.2#. I wonder if that was a mixup as I would have thought it the other way around.  Yes I understand it is an AR Type rifle - The "MP" stands for Military& Police, I also have an MP40c pistol that has the same designation for Military & Police. As far as the AR Desigination, I dont know if its accurate but from what I read in researching on Wikipedia is that the AR stands for the manufacturer of the 1st AR-15, Armalite (not "assault rifle" as I & many others assumed) and is actually a trademark designation that belongs to Armalite so no other manufacturers can use it, hence the SW's MP, Remingtons 'R-15', Bushmaster's X-15. But Bushmaster does have an "AR-15" model dont they? Or maybe AR-15 "style"?? Anyway, not that it really matters much to me but just something I read, and since its on the internet, it has to be true right?? Thanks again!

If it's on the internet it's the truth. I have to run b/c i only have 4 minutes left to forward this email to 20 people or i'll have bad luck for 8 years and never find love or get rich.

I was really just trying to point out that your rifle should take most if not all after market AR parts. AR stands for Armalite Rifle which was the original manufacturer. Unfortunately the anti's have taken it to mean assault rifle which is why we as the gun community are being encouraged to refer to it as the "modern sporting rifle" and not an assault rifle. BTW if you dont have one yet get one of these. It made the fit of my Oly K16 so much tighter and i could tell a difference in accuracy as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#accuwedge____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

Hahaha, thats funny about needing to send the email! Very good one. Guess I misunderstood where you were coming from on the AR thing, I got a little 'techy' on ya there, dont know where all that came from, just too bored at work I guess cuz I sure in the hell dont know what I'm talking about! My buddy is always telling me "its not an assault rifle, its a defense rifle!" What is that accuwedge for and where does it go on the rifle?

[trippledigitss]

I just read more about that accuwedge and saw that it improves accuracy and feeding reliability. Still cant picture where it goes though....

[chrisb]

pop out the rear pin that connects the upper to the lower and open it up. you see that space just below the buffer and to the rear of the trigger group that is essentially and empty void? It literally just sits there. you may need to trim the top a bit just to make sure it doesn't interfere with the buffer  but that's it. Found this too:

http://www.deltagearinc.com/Armory/Accessories/AccuwedgeLG.jpg

[trippledigitss]

pop out the rear pin that connects the upper to the lower and open it up. you see that space just below the buffer and to the rear of the trigger group that is essentially and empty void? It literally just sits there. you may need to trim the top a bit just to make sure it doesn't interfere with the buffer  but that's it. Found this too:

http://www.deltagearinc.com/Armory/Accessories/AccuwedgeLG.jpg

I got some of these yesterday and they will not fit in that space. I trimmed the bottom part where it seats down to about 1/16" thick and the back part to about 1/8" thick and cut it shorter to clear the buffer and the upper would not close at all. I had to totally cut the base off and then use only the back before it would close - so now I have about a 1/2" square piece that is only 1/8" thick slid behind the pin. There is a block on the bottom side of the upper where the pin connects and it sits tight on the lower so there is no room to put anything under it at all. Not sure if it is going to do anything....

[ivarhusa]

I'll make the pitch for the Savage Predator model.  It has a sweet trigger, and comes camo'd. Not terribly expensive, and mine groups under an inch at 100 yards.  I've also regularly poke holes in the 10 ring at 600 yards in competition (204 Ruger).

[overunder12]

+1 on a used savage with accu-trigger for economic good performance.

but would think seriously about the AR platform, the amount of customization that you can achieve is insane! you can pick one up for about 700 bucks--but a good varmit setup with a quality 20-24" 1-12 twist Hbar will run you around 1200. (from everything I've read 1-12 is the ideal for stabilizing the 55gr, 62-75gr works well in 1-9 or 1-7.)

[trippledigitss]

Finally 'pulled the trigger' and just ordered my Howa Axiom package in 22-250 with the 24" heavy barrel in Ranchland King's Camo with matchin 4.5x16x44 Stirling NightEater scope.   I know I could get a better scope but I like the idea of having the matching camo pattern so I went with the package. Being sent from Utah so once my payment clears it should be here by next friday or early the follwing week. I am pumped to get it and shoot it, I cant wait to check it out! I almost went with the Savage M10 Predator but I wanted something different and since the Savage is your standard traditional style BA I decided to go with the Howa - hopefully it was not the wrong choice. I still might get a .243 Savage M10 or maybe the Edge since they are so affordable but my next 2 priorities are #1 a hunting semi-auto shotgun (only have a 'home defense' pump action) and then either a Springfield Armory 1911 Ultra Compact .45acp in the V-10 ported barrel or a Kimber Crimson Carry or Ultra Compact Carry. After that will see if I still am still interested in the Savages. (meaning if I still have any money!)

Cant decide which shotgun to go with and I know nothing about them so that makes it even harder! I was looking a Remington Deer Hunter in 12ga rifled barrel - nice gun but I want to shoot shot shells more than slugs.... I dont know.....

I let you know how it shoots when I get my Axiom!