450 marlin

[MountainWalk]

Has anyone here had any real practical exp. with the 450 marlin? What do you think?

[BigGoonTuna]

all i know is that it's essentially a hot .45-70 with a belt on the case to keep it from chambering in the old weaker .45-70 rifles(like trapdoor springfields).

probably not a bad choice if you don't reload, but if you reload there's no reason to own one over a .45-70.

[carpsniperg2]

i have a friend that is a big lever gun nut and he has a 444 and a 450 i think they are making the flex tip loads for both now and should be a great load for those guns. but as far as me i have not ever used one to hunt with just shot his a few times

[Bigshooter]

all i know is that it's essentially a hot .45-70 with a belt on the case to keep it from chambering in the old weaker .45-70 rifles(like trapdoor springfields).

probably not a bad choice if you don't reload, but if you reload there's no reason to own one over a .45-70.

+1

If you are going to reload get a 45-70.  The 450 has a thicker side wall that reduces powder capacity.

[loaderboy]

I love mine I had a leupold scout mounted on some wild west mounts and quick release warne rings with fiber optic ghost ring sights as backups. Sure did a number on my Idaho black bear. Very fun to shoot.

[MikeWalking]

all i know is that it's essentially a hot .45-70 with a belt on the case to keep it from chambering in the old weaker .45-70 rifles(like trapdoor springfields).

probably not a bad choice if you don't reload, but if you reload there's no reason to own one over a .45-70.

There are claims Marlin stole it from/based it on the .457 Wild West Magnum made by Wild West guns in Anchorage. I found some in a cabin years back they're a good bit longer than the 45-70 about 3/16th. I don't remember the complete reason for the belt. There is an old Winchester cal. they will chamber in  .348? .358? been a few years since I read about the development. As much as anything I think Marlin wanted to distance themselves from the copycat charges.

A hot 45-70, Buffalo Bore or Garretts ammo will do anything a 450 Marlin will.

Interesting to note. The guns chambered for the WW .457 mag will shoot 45-70, .457 and .410

[BigGoonTuna]

the belt comes from the parent case being a wildcat of the .458 win mag.

[Bigshooter]

And they made the belt wider so it wouldn't chamber in any of the 458's offspring.

[yorketransport]

I really liked the 450 Marlin. I had one in a Guide Gun for a few years. Loaded with 400gr bullets, I would have put it up against any animal on this continent and not felt under gunned. I also felt like it cycled through the action better than the 45-70 (or 444 Marlin for that matter). The 45-70 is a great round, and I still have a BFR chambered for it. But a rimmed round is a better fit to single shots and revolvers.

People like to compare factory 450 Marlin loads to hot rodded 45-70 reloads, or +p factroy ammo.  I don't think that's completely fair. The 450 can be handloaded with heavier bullets to improve performance. I'd say that if 450 ballistics aren't enough for you out of a lever gun, it's time to move up to the 50 Alaskan.

One of these days I'll put together a bolt action in 450 Marlin. It should make a great 18" carbine.

Andrew

[Bigshooter]

I really liked the 450 Marlin. I had one in a Guide Gun for a few years. Loaded with 400gr bullets, I would have put it up against any animal on this continent and not felt under gunned. I also felt like it cycled through the action better than the 45-70 (or 444 Marlin for that matter). The 45-70 is a great round, and I still have a BFR chambered for it. But a rimmed round is a better fit to single shots and revolvers.

People like to compare factory 450 Marlin loads to hot rodded 45-70 reloads, or +p factroy ammo.  I don't think that's completely fair. The 450 can be handloaded with heavier bullets to improve performance. I'd say that if 450 ballistics aren't enough for you out of a lever gun, it's time to move up to the 50 Alaskan.

One of these days I'll put together a bolt action in 450 Marlin. It should make a great 18" carbine.

Andrew

Its obvious that hot 45-70 reloads can't be compared to factory 450 stuff.  All I am saying is if you reload go with the 45-70.  You get a little more out of the 45-70 because it has larger powder capacity.  Because the 450 has thicker side walls.  But if you don't reload go with the 450. 

[MountainWalk]

Mr. Yorke, thats kind of the direction I'm wanting to go. A 45 cal bolt rifle. I think the simplist would be a 458, but I'm not sure how far down it can be loaded. I know of Siam mausers and lee enfields being converted to 4570, but I'm not sure the m-98 can do that. I've also read that the 4570 can be a finicky feeder in a bolt gun. I do plan on loading my own, but only elk rounds. Most every round to be shot from it, not elk hunting, will be a factory load.

[superdown]

here's a couple.  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=170641507         http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171357487

[Bigshooter]

Mr. Yorke, thats kind of the direction I'm wanting to go. A 45 cal bolt rifle. I think the simplist would be a 458, but I'm not sure how far down it can be loaded. I know of Siam mausers and lee enfields being converted to 4570, but I'm not sure the m-98 can do that. I've also read that the 4570 can be a finicky feeder in a bolt gun. I do plan on loading my own, but only elk rounds. Most every round to be shot from it, not elk hunting, will be a factory load.

Feeding straight walled cases are a always a problem in a bolt action.  Had always planned on building a .411 hawk until I read about all of the feeding problems that they have.  But it would be cool to have a bolt action 45cal.  You can load a 458 way down.  My dad had a m70 that he loaded a 405gr cast bullet at around 1300fps.

[yorketransport]

The 450 makes more sense in a short barreled bolt gun than the full size 458 Win Mag. I had a 458 WM for a while, but I just didn't see the need for that much gun. If I was going to down load it to 450 or 45-70 ballistics it made more sense to get one of those calibers. Besides, the 458 was an Interarms Mk X, and I just don't care for Mauser actions. So I sold it and bought the Guide Gun in 450. I liked the Guide Gun and the caliber, it just got traded off to somebody who liked the combo better than I did.

The 450 has the advantage of working more efficiently out of a shorter action, with a shorter barrel than the full sized 458 Win Mag. The Marlin just makes a better carbine round. I plan on having an 18" Savage barrel made. It would be an easy swap to convert any short action into take the Marlin case. I'm just waiting to find a good deal on a short mag donor rifle. The barrel would cost under $300 bucks, depending on the brand. But this barrel is just one of the many projects that I'll get to "some day". The bolt action 450 Marlin and a 358 Winchester have been on my list of must have barrels for a few years now, but they just keep getting bumped by other projects.

Andrew

[superdown]

what are the advantages of the short mag action over the standard short action for this conversion? all this talk of a 450 carbine is getting me really interested in one.

[Huntbear]

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but get yourself a Siamese Mauser action, and build a bolt gun 45-70. 

It has a staggered magazine for rimmed cases, and is strong enough, you can load to maximum loads and even beyond to 100 % compressed loads with the right powder.

Excellent 250 yd elk gun, and bear gun.

[yorketransport]

what are the advantages of the short mag action over the standard short action for this conversion? all this talk of a 450 carbine is getting me really interested in one.

It would just save you from replacing the bolt head and magazine. But changing bolt heads on a Savage is honestly only a 15 minute and $30 job. I'd just get the short mag action so that I had one for future builds. I like to have an action for every situation. I have a separate repeater action for .223 length, standard short action (308), long action (30-06), and standard length magnums (300 Win Mag). Then I have a single shot with a standard (.473") bolt face, and one with a magnum bolt face (.534"). All I need now are a .378" (223) single shot, short magnum repeater, and a long magnum (RUM or H&H) repeater action. Then I should be set.

Andrew

[MountainWalk]

Any practical knowledge of the 458 american? or a 460 guns an ammo? These two, I know nothing about.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Now that this thread has turned more to discussion....   

I've looked at the balistics for the 45-70, 450Marlin and 444Marlin for a while now.  My next lever gun will be a Marlin SS guide gun in 444Marlin. The 444 might give up a little in the energy department at the muzzle, but flies a lot flatter with a bit lighter and better BC bullet selection, but is still a big bore and is beyond compare to the 358win. Most of the 444 bullets actually retain more energy down range that what's offered for the 450. Each of these cartridges has a good selection of bullets for the hand loader, but I think the 444 would be a more versital hunting arm.

-Steve

[carpsniperg2]

i agree jackofalltrades if i had to buy one it would be the 444 like i said early in this topic my buddy had a bunch of lever guns and i loved the 444 he had it was a marlin in ss as well, we had a blast shooting them i think that new lever evelution bullets and loads would be super in them.

[MountainWalk]

I think I am leaning more towards the 450 Marlin. Me thinks that the 4570 being rimmed and all would really mess with feeding, and the rim is sooo big. I think it has enough juice for two hundred yards max, and energy or lack of shouldnt make a big difference. Frontal area is big enough. I have a chzec vz-24 rifle that will handle it. Plan on having a 22 inch barrel with a ring sight and im going to leave the bolt as is, straight out the side. Thanks for all the info and discussion.

[yorketransport]

Sounds like fun. Be sure to post updates as the project moves along.

Andrew