Anyone reloading 7.62 X 54?

[Jekemi]

I have re-conditioned an old Mosin Negant. I Replaced the wooden stock with a synthetic one. I Put in new alluminum mounting posts. I replaced the old straight out bolt with a new stainless steel one that drops down so you don't hit your knuckles on the scope. I have mounted an alluminum scope mount to the octagonal receiver and put a cheap Redfield scope on it - I had it machine drilled into the receiver; not the cheap rail that sits on top. Next step is to have the barrel re-crowned.
I want to begin reloading for it but I can't find new brass anywhere. All the cases out there are steel. Any thoughts?

[carpsniperg2]

the only stuff i have seen is steel cases and it has been bulk crap my buddy had a rifle in the 7.62x54 he got rid of it a few years ago.

[phishisgroovin]

I would just pull bullets out of the military loads and press in some nosler bullets in the surplus ammo rounds.
you will get away far ahead because all you will need is bullets and bulk surplus ammo.

300 rounds of Bulgarian ammo is only around $85 and the Nosler bullets wont set you back real far.
Otherwise, you will most likely have to shop ot graf and sons online and get Wolf or whatever commercial ammo and save your brass.

[machine]

$13 a box isn't bad and it gives you an excuse to go shooting so you have brass to reload.http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP76254SP150&groupid=40

[phishisgroovin]

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/771

[lokidog]

I've reloaded for mine, makes a nice load and dang accurate.  Safety sucks on those guns though....

I think I bought most of my ammo as cheaply as I could with reloadable brass and then just had fun plinking it so I could reload.  Shot a deer a few years back in WI with it, open sights.

Have fun.  Phishisgroovin has a good idea, be careful though.

[FC]

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/65834-5.html

Ouch!

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=459745  Dies.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=223459

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=1270189782 brass

[phishisgroovin]

youre going to have alot of fun shooting that. heres my two carbine M38 Mosins flashing off last weekend.

[Bscman]

Nosler and Winchester sell brass. S&B also loads rounds in reloadable brass.

None of it is all that easy to find, or cheap...especially considering the availability of .308 which is a close ballistic match.

You can buy cheap soft points in steel cases from Wideners...$6 per box, 203gr. Even with my re-crowned, bedded, M44 with trigger job it would only do ~3" at 100yds with that ammo.

Fun rifles, no doubt....especially when you could still buy 440rnd tins for $35.

[shaneman153D]

You sporterized an octagon??!!!!   

May consider counter-boring when you re-crown too (if it's not already done).  Made a world of difference on my '44 Izzy.
 

[e55komp]

7n1 ammo is unbeatable. shoots 1/2 @ 100 out of a psl

[shaneman153D]

7n1 ammo is unbeatable. shoots 1/2 @ 100 out of a psl

Uh, not out of mine.  Less than impressed.  Best ammo I had for the PSL was the Wolf 150gr FMJBT that they specifically made for the PSL.  They don't make it anymore.

If you want some 7n1 I have a little, collecting dust.

Shane

[Jekemi]

The barrel is round but the receiver is hexagonal. The scope mount is from Rock Solid Industries. It is cemented, drilled, and tapped to the left hand side of the receiver ($90). The stainless steel bolt is drop down so you don't hit your knuckles on the scope ($70).
The instructions said to mount the scope to the scope mount first, then screw the mount to the receiver, after drilling and tapping.
I replaced the old bedding pillars with nice new machined alluminum ones ($12) and new screws as well ($10).

I found Prvi Partizan Ammunition 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian (7.62x53mm Rimmed) 150 Soft Point Box of 20 at Midway USA. Takes the boxer primers. Not sure how easy it is to press those primers into the cases. Anyone know if a standard hand-primer loader works with boxer primers? You can reload those with .308 ammo.

[BigGoonTuna]

boxer primers are the kind that are typically used in most reloading, as opposed to berdan primers.

[Jekemi]

So any standard large rifle primer, shuch as the ones I use for my .270 should work fine? 

[shaneman153D]

The barrel is round but the receiver is hexagonal. The scope mount is from Rock Solid Industries. It is cemented, drilled, and tapped to the left hand side of the receiver ($90). The stainless steel bolt is drop down so you don't hit your knuckles on the scope ($70).
The instructions said to mount the scope to the scope mount first, then screw the mount to the receiver, after drilling and tapping.
I replaced the old bedding pillars with nice new machined alluminum ones ($12) and new screws as well ($10).

I found Prvi Partizan Ammunition 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian (7.62x53mm Rimmed) 150 Soft Point Box of 20 at Midway USA. Takes the boxer primers. Not sure how easy it is to press those primers into the cases. Anyone know if a standard hand-primer loader works with boxer primers?

Yeah, I'm familiar, it's called a hex.  They're supposedly more rare, but that equates to $100 as opposed to $90 for a round one.   

You can reload those with .308 ammo.

Are you asking if you can reload x54 with .308 dia bullets?  Because the answer is no.  Russia's version of 7.62 is .311 dia.  Also, if reloading for a mosin (or any x54 for that matter), you need to slug the bore before selecting bullets.  Here's a how to:  http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

Good luck and post some groups.  Mine shoots 2.5" at 25yds all day long baby!

[lokidog]

2 1/2" groups at 25 yards?  Are you kidding?  Surplus ammo, I was wacking bowling pins at 200 yards the first itme at the range with mine.

I always wondered if you could just cut off an eith inch or so from a fmj to get some expansion on game... ?  It has been a while since I reloaded for it but I think I reloaded .308's and had no problems with accuracy.    

Just looked it up, I had the M91/30 Finnish with a bore diameter of .3095.  Check this site out for rifle specs  http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSpec.htm . 

[shaneman153D]

No lie, mine was atrocious when I first got it.  I counter-bored it and that helped a little, but I think I've got a pretty well shot out bore.  It's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.  I think I'm going to turn it into a floor lamp, once I get another one.

Seems like you could do that to FMJ, I cut like an 1/8th off some czech silver tip a long time ago, but never got around to trying it out.  I've heard you shouldn't do this, don't remember why.

Finnish Mosins are supposed to be the most accurate of them all.

[Jekemi]

shaneman153D: what is counter boring? I'm guessing it's boring in the opposite direction of standard boring but I'm guessing. Why does it make a difference?

[FC]

shaneman153D: what is counter boring? I'm guessing it's boring in the opposite direction of standard boring but I'm guessing. Why does it make a difference?

It was the Russian repair for a damaged crown or rifling near the muzzle, typically from cleaning, essentially they would drill down the barrel until they got to good rifling. Some think it to be a hokey fix but when you think about it they came up with a cheap simple fix that wouldn't alter the front sight or bayonet placement but would restore the rifle's accuracy.

[shaneman153D]

It was the Russian repair for a damaged crown or rifling near the muzzle, typically from cleaning, essentially they would drill down the barrel until they got to good rifling. Some think it to be a hokey fix but when you think about it they came up with a cheap simple fix that wouldn't alter the front sight or bayonet placement but would restore the rifle's accuracy.

Spot on.  There's also another "phenomenon" that causes need for it, get ready for dry reading:  After a LOT of rounds, the barrel begins to wear unevenly more and more toward the end.  The way this was explained to me, I just can't relay here, (mainly because I never understood it completely, and could only correlate to rotary wing aerodynamics) but it has to do with "gyroscopic precession" IIRC. 

Basically (which is a pre-caveat meaning "I don't know what I'm talking about") as the bullet travels down the tube, (spinning rapidly) it creates more wear on one side of the barrel than the rest.  It gets worse as it goes down the tube, so long barrels beware.  (Apache 30mm barrels get it bad) so I think this is why it's common in 91/30s (30" tube I think?)

Counter boring (done correctly) requires special tools, because once you essentially have a 4" deep hole with a bigger ID than the bore, you need to get a precision tool down that black hole.  Think of it as a REALLY recessed crown. 

To determine if you need to do it (if a simple crown doesn't make it acceptable) Take a caliper, and measure the ID from land-to-land all the way around multiple times to see if you need to do it.  (Sometimes it's apparent by looking)  Mine was so bad, that it was actually beneficial to do it with a drill bit, knowing that the "crown" would be uneven.  My friend and I had never done it before, but it was a $60 gun that shot 16MOA so we were comfortable doing it.  We assumed it would be better about 2" down, but ended up having to go almost 5.

It really would just be better to cut a light 45 degree crown if you don't have to counter bore it (if you're getting acceptable accuracy.  Also, there's a 50-50 chance that it's already done on your gun.  Mic the ID and if it's nowhere near .311, it's probably counter-bored.

BTW FC, your compliments to the Rusky's reminded me of this:

When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered the ballpoint pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat the problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 Billion to develop a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside down, underwater, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to 300C.

The Russians used a pencil.

Not true, but it's still funny http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

[Jekemi]

I've seen many Mosin's beautifully modified, incredible laminated thumbhole stocks, long distance scopes, and what looks like replacement barrels. Has anyone ever tried to shorten the barrel by an inch; to do two things:
1. eliminate the need for counter boring
2. easier field carrying
In the pictures I saw it looks like the entire barrel was replaces with some other type or perhaps shortened and recrowned. Anyone ever seen this?
http://www.rocksolidind.com/photo.html

[FC]

I've seen Mosin Nagant barrels cut down to 18" from their original 28+ (common barrel length) and re-crowned with either modified bolts and side mounted scope rails or long eye relief low power scopes mounted in place of the rear sight. Done right they looked great and their owners claimed huge improvements in accuracy and a significant reduction in weight.

[shaneman153D]

Some people get really out of control with them:  http://cbrps.com/Products.html

(Scroll down and look carefully) 

I was actually looking for another site that had another bullpup type kit that looked kinda cool.

I've thought about getting a custom barrel made for mine, factory contour/length just to have a rediculously accurate Mosin that appeared stock, but I've never tried to see if any of the barrel makers can make one.

shane

[Jekemi]

Shaneman and others: This is unbelievable! Not exactly what I want to do but very cool.

I just want to get the old Mosin Negant to behave reasonably well on the range, shoot some tight groups at 100 yards, and function as a backup hunting rifle. I think I'll take the gun to a gunsmith and have the barrel shortened by an inch or so, re crowned, and then see if counterboring is necessary. Controversy rages between .308 and .311 bullet diameter. Slugging as suggested by some is probably the right thing to do to solve that mystery. I will have spent way more than the $100 its worth but I got if for free so it's a nice little project. I'll learn a bunch. Thanks for everyone's advice. That's why I love this website.

[Jekemi]

phishisgroovin: when you say Mosin Negant carbine do you mean that you had the gun modified to typical carbine specifications or is there a Mosin Carbiine out there that I'm not aware of? I'm looking for a Gunsmith to do some barrel modifications to my Mosin in the Seattle area. Can anyone recommend one?

[lokidog]

There are carbine length guns, in fact, I think most are the carbine length not the long swedish ones.  My carbine is as accurate as my longer one, bowling pins at 200.

[shaneman153D]

M38, M44 are the Mosin-carbines.  Only difference is the M44 has a bayonet.  They cost more than the M91/30, and both are FLAMETHROWERS!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=44d_1243049344