Entiat Special Permit Numbers

[WAmuleyHunter]

So guys we have had a chance to look at the regs. What do you think. I am really un happy with the increase in permit numbers in the entiat unit and the chiwawa unit. with no decrease in anything.  That is a lot of permits, and archery permits. specially when its 100 % for rifle and like 70 % success rate for the archery people. I dont  know where they found all these extra deer at last year. From spending so much time up there and talking with people, the bio. they will shoot the herd out this year with all these permits. its sad, this unit could be the best in the state, like it has been. but killing this many trophy bucks can not be good. look at other units that are close to the same type like the ones in the okanogan. the desert. they dont have this much pressure for 2 months in there.  so tell me what you think, and if something should be done, what do you think. thank you for listening, and sorry for the ramble. just hate seeing my backyard destroyed by $$$$$$$$$

[WDFW-SUX]

I dont understand why they allow the entiat and chiwawa units to be hunted like they do.  they would be far better off if they rotated the archery hunt to a different unit every year so the hunt would not hammer the same unit over and over and over.......

I would like to see a Five year rotation for the archery permits like

1 Entiat

2 Perrygin

3 Alta

4 Chiwawa

5 Chewuck

[WAmuleyHunter]

agreed. great idea. something definitly needs to be changed. we cant let this happen. any longer

[Ironhead]

I know this won't be a popular idea but, I would like to see this unit managed like the desert unit. No general season, permit hunts only for rifle muzzy and archery. 150 tags total for the year. Then we could see the potential of this unit. I also think it's the best unit in the state and would love to see it managed as a trophy unit only.

[Ridgerunner]

Although I would consider myself a trophy hunter I disagree with creating another desert unit.  I do like the idea of rotating the archery hunters though and think the number of rifle tags given out should be no more than 30-35 for any of the late permits.  I don't think by giving out extra tags they are making any more money, it's just allowing more people the opportunity to hunt it. 

[MichaelJ]

Where would all the hunters go for the general if they closed the entiat units?  lol

Michael

[billythekidrock]

I am not familiar with that unit, but could the increase in permits have anything to do with the outbreak of disease? I know the mulies are starting to get hammered by parasites, just not sure where.

[bobcat]

The hair loss so far is in the units around Yakima and Cle Elum, according to the 2006 Game Status and Trends Report. It hasn't got as far north as Wenatchee or Chelan....yet.

[Muleyslyr]

Michael......they'd go over to Winthrop and Twisp with the rest of the state.   

By just closing down the Entiat unit during general season it would destroy surrounding areas eventually.  Absolutely should've kept it the way it was.  Been working pretty good up to this point.

[shag]

The muzzleloader guy's really get screwed!  Not a single big buck tag for front stuffers.  I wonder if the department adds more permits just to raise revenue?  I wonder also if they give out more assuming the same amout of animals will still get killed  Wonder if it's based on percentages?

They should reduce the rifle tags. Should reduce them enough to give frontstuffers a shot.  Yet still have the total tags alotted same or less than last year.

The dept. need to be careful with such a gem!  Still can't beleive the muzzloader guys totally screwed.

CD

[Craig]

That is the main reason I have not switched over to my muzzleloader yet. They don' t get jack for special permits.

Chiwawa 2 permits
Desert 2 permits
Naneum 2 permits
Quilomene 2 permits

give me a break.

[boneaddict]

I'd like to see muzzelloader regs go %100 primitive, I'm not sure what they are in this state.  I get really sick of seeing guys with these inline shotgun primer things with sabots, and being all proud of a muzzelloader kill.  Seems to me the only inconvienece they have is 1 shot.  Half the fun with muzzelloading is dealing with the weather, making your own lead bullets etc.  and then to hear of those that use flintlocks.  HOLY COW, now thats hunting!  If they were indeed %100 primitive I would feel a little more sorry for their tag allocations.  Just my opinion though.  I suppose the same can be said for archery, but I don't think its as bad as muzzelloading.

[WDFW-SUX]

the maximum range the best archer with the best equipment will make a good shot might be 65 yards, where as a muzzy might go 250. 

They should have to go with flitlocks, ball rounds and non rifled barrels. no more 209 and pyrodex.

[shag]

By primative I'm assuming you mean a side hammer.  Well got news for ya. They produce Green Mtn Barrels that come come with a 1 in 24" twist.  I have pards that have them on their Thompson Center side locks.    I on the other hand shoot a Thompson Center Firehawk.  It's an inline.  I have a 1 in 38" twist and I only use 100 grains of 777.  My max is 125 yds.  Your really only gonna get more range outa inlines that are loaded with 150 grains of powder.

I can't stand recoil so I only shoot 100 grains. Plus mine is most accurate that way.  So you see my pards Primitive with his Green Mtn barrel accually has the advantage.

Modern Bows will easily kill at 70yards and most will try 80 yds shots at a trophy buck or bull.  So I have a 40 to 50 yd advantage.  Hell I shoot pie plates at 60 yds with my old Martin Fire cat and it's 15 yrs old!

So why not make bow hunters carve their own arrows?  Chip their own arrowheads?  ETC.

Bottom line the front stuffers are getting screwed in Wash.

I use Black Belt Bullets.  They are a soild lead bullet.  They do have a small plastic powder check at the base.  Supposed to enhance velocity and accuracy.. Truth be told Hornadys Great plains all lead projectiles shoot just as good.

To think that going primitive with a front stuffer is not the answer.  Mostly because you'd have to go primative with a the archery guys also.  And that ain't gonna happen

I do feel that pellets should not be allowed and washington already outlaws anything but a solid lead projectile.

The only reason I went inline was to achieve a more reliable ignition.  Which in my eye's is a much more responsible solution.  To many guy's with sidelocks that hang fire causing a flinch and the possibility of more wounded and lost animals.  Not to mention I spend way to much money scouting and hunting to have a gun not go off.

I'd think that if they outlaw pellet's those same guys would start pouring powder again and most would cut back on the amount they pour.  Reducing the range of the gun.  Shotgun primers are NOT allowed in washington.

Inline's with 100 to 120 grains of powder are NOT capible of 250 yard shots.  Even if I shot 120 grains my max is 125.  Take away the pellets and most would be back pouring 90 to 100 grains.

Matter of fact with modern bows will shoot deer at 70 yds and reload alot faster than a inline muzzloader.  So we have a 50 yd edge on archery guys.  Big deal.  Archers have longer better seasons and harvest at least twice the amount the frontstuffers do.

Now who do think is at the disadvantage.  I know my pards side lock is capiable of better accuracy and prolly will stabilize the bullet for a little better range.  Outlawing inlines dosen't make since.

CD

[Slenk]

the maximum range the best archer with the best equipment will make a good shot might be 65 yards, where as a muzzy might go 250. 

They should have to go with flitlocks, ball rounds and non rifled barrels. no more 209 and pyrodex.

I had an inline (sold it after one hunt) didn't like it ,was no better than my flintlocks . If you tend to details the Sidelock Caplocks or Flintlocks will not be any slower in ignition or anymore unreliable .
I have hunted with Flintlocks for the last 25 yrs. . Killed my share of animals .
If I want to PO an inline shooter all I have to do is hand my Rifle or Smoothbore to my oldest son and watch him out shoot an inline shooter . He has also out shot Rifle shooters on trail walks many times with a Smoot bore .My eyes arn't good enough any more to do it .
No brag just facts . We have done it more than once .

[shag]

Cut back on rifle permits by 20.  Give muzzloader hunters 15.  Save 5 big bucks a year!  And that will be 20 less guys to compete with during the rifle hunt.

CD

[Ridgerunner]

I do think the MZ guys got hosed on this one.  The LE permits for MZ are a joke.

[boneaddict]

So why not make bow hunters carve their own arrows?  Chip their own arrowheads?  ETC.

I'm working on that. 

I'm definatley not here, especially on this post to start any arguements about equipment, as we all need to stick together if we want to do any hunting period.  I think the whole permit thing is screwed up with the Entiat, and for the most part I don't partake in it, so don't have a bias.  For that type of open country, that is way too many permits for the rut.

In general, I think technology is screwing with hunting.  With the new scent elimination clothing, laser sights, scopes with unreal clarity, with range finders, let offs, shotgun primers, inlines, spotting scopes that you can see the man on the moon, scents, calls, carbon arrows, I could go on and on.......Does anyone hunt anymore or is this a fashion show at a Star Trek convention.  Give me an old front stuffer, or my stick bow, or the 30-30, and my dime store optics, and I'm good to go, blue jeans and all.  I'll just stay downwind.  I do have an itch or soap box if you call it... for the new muzzeloaders that you see on TV and in all the magazines, and how they call them primitive, with 9 power leopolds on top of their sabot loaded composite stock, pyrodex pellet, shotgun primer, rifled barrels.  Hell, most of them have rubber for the shoulder too, just in case it kicks too much.  I don't buy that as primitive in any sort of fashion.  To me, those weapons whould fall under the category Modern rifle.
(By the way. I killed my buck this year with a longbow during the modern rifle season as I'd rather hunt with it, but am after a modern rifle late tag versus archery.  My next challenge IS knapping my own arrowheads.)   Again, I have no idea what Washingtons rules are now about what is a muzzeloader.  I think the scopes are still illegal, but thats all I know.  I do know that many states are starting to have the same opinion as me(Scary in itself), and traditional means traditional.

[shag]

Washington dosen't allow scopes on muzzloaders during muzzlerloader season.  You can only use an all lead projectile.  All nipple's must be exsposed to the elements.  Number 11 percussion caps and Musket caps are leagal, nothing else is.

The only difference between my inline and a sidelock is that the spark from my ignition dosen't have a curve in the road.  All my old side locks were just as accurate at 100 yds.  I will shoot at a critter at 125yds with my inline and I prolly could of with my side locks I just never tried.

I hope washington keeps it all lead projectile policy and would like to see pellets banned.

Idaho outlawed inlines this year.  They have their head up there ass.  Like I stated before all a guy has to do is get a Green Mtn. barrel with a 1 in 28' or 24" twist and it will out perform my TC inline.  You can still shoot 150 grains of powder in a side lock.

 I really like my TC Fire hawk alot.  But will admit I'm in lust with a Lyman Deerstalker in the stainless Walnut version.

Boneaddict,  congrats on your deer with your longbow!!  I think i've seen pics of it before.  Is it a twisp muledeer?

I swear someday I'm gonna make a video of me calling in elk and turkey with a santa clause suit on.  It's all about wind and movement. Don't need no damn scentlok crap.. It's pretty funny a friend of mine thinks that scentlok is the greatest thing on earth.  Has the boots, hats everything.........  he wears it while chain smoking all the way to where he's huntin.  What a dumd ass.

CD

[boneaddict]

Funny about the Santa Clause suit and the chain smoker.  You are a %100 correct.  Man in general is such a dope. Anyone who would pour year old elk piss on themselves just to get that much closer to an animal.  I'm waiting for them to market scent lock breath mints.

Sounds like Washington has it going on in regards to keeping it primitive.  I'm still in awe in hearing Slenk hunting with a flintlock.  I think that is SO COOL!

Yep, it was a Twisp buck.

[shag]

Yep,  I think I saw a pic of your buck at monster muley
Did you make your own long bow?

CD

[boneaddict]

I think it was on there, and is on here somewhere.  A gentleman out of Montana built it for me.  Its sure fun to shoot, though I do miss the compound once in awhile.  I'm hoping to have a chance at a bigger one this fall, but aren't we all.

[dreamingbig]

I had a tag last year for Entiat B and wasn't successful so I helped the herd along!  If I keep drawing the herd should be in good shape.   

[nw_bowhunter]

Shooting at elk or deer with compounds bows at a range of 70yds is not responsible hunting. You may be able to hit the animal but killing the animal is another thing. Without good arrow penetration and shot placement you will be following a blood trail, especially on elk.

[spin05]

I  heard the whole reason the entiat went to permit only was because the head of region 2 hunts there with rifle.He was fed up with all the big bucks that us archery guys were supposeably getting.The funny thing is i hardly ever saw guys hunting were we hunt.When it went to permit only i got drawn and there were guys every were.They said they counted 500+ guys hunting that late season in there.I say B.S. Ive drove around in there from time to time at night and theres no way!!!!!!!

[Slider]

It's not Rocket Science? Cut the amount of tags by 50%!!! Good Luck

[spin05]

Id like to see the archery ones stay at 150 but give us the whole season instead of 300 guys split up......That in effect would be 50%.

[arrowflinger]

Muzzleloaders now can use ballistic tips......................Just to keep things going.

[spin05]

Also 1/3-1/2 ,depending on the year,are does killed in the entiat with archery.Id say there lucky if the get 1/2 the bucks being 3pt or better.I  left 4-5 bucks standing there on the hill 2 years in a row at dark on the last day of the season.That was before the permit hunts..............

[Wea300mag]

I like the idea of rotating between the Chelan/Okanogan areas for producing good numbers of trophy animals. I am going to start doing like a lot of you already do and put in for as many trophy hunts in as many states as I can to increase my odds. I'm not getting any younger and need fill my walls with mounts as soon as possible.

[johnsc6]

I think I let out a rant about this once before....unit is already ruined from what it once was.

[sagerat]

I think the increase in tag numbers is crazy. When WDFW was taking comments for season setting I told them that. No doubt that was a huge waste of time! What can a guy do about it?

I also with agree with Boneaddicts opinion on technology, it sure seems to be getting a little crazy. How much of an advantage do we really need? The sky is the limit apparently. I have yet to try muzzleloading but I do own a TC Firehawk, still new! Keep thinking I'll try for a Rosie bull with it. I hope the department leaves the ML restrictions alone, they are more than fair. If they allowed 209's, sabots and scopes it would hardly make sense to allow special seasons for "muzzleloaders"...

[George]

I know that the wdfw bios base their permits on population data (or at least they want us to think that's what they do), but it just feels to me like there are too many modern firearms permits being issued.  I would also like to see more archery areas opened up with fewer permits in the Entiat and perhaps a permit system in the Swakane.  I think we need to get some of the pressure off of the Chelan County mule deer.  It is a great trophy population; let's keep it that way.

[Bigshooter]

wdfw does not manage for quality only quanity!!!!  If we want this changed we are going to have to join together and make them change this.

[George]

The Chelan County mule deer hunts have historically been a migration hunt.  Not many deer were spending the summer in areas with road access so not many were taken in October.  Since the fires, we have many more deer staying lower.  You can now have a decent chance of a harvesting a local buck during the General Season.  Still the big migrators are available only to those who hunt high or get lucky enough to draw a Special Permit or hunt Swakane during archery season.

I agree; too many permits for the November and December hunts are being issued.  I would rather see that number cut in half.  That would serve to maintain a very healthy migratory herd.  Doe permits for the October season, to keep the local's population down, would also be helpful.  Wdfw bios do not seem to share my interest in protecting the migrators.  They point to the 32 buck to 100 doe ratio and say "there is no reason to worry".  George

[MichaelJ]

Everybody has got some awesome input here, though I do think we will see the Chelan CO units bounce back here in 3-4 years if the winters are nice.  That is a great buck-doe ratio but they should work harder to preserve it.  The Trophy status of the units has gone way done, just look at the photo album at Ardenviors for the last two years compared to years past.  REDICULOUS how many deer that AREN'T being shot with those late tags.  Lets hope it does bounce back.

Michael

[WAmuleyHunter]

all they want is $$$$ Once we have a big die off after a bad winter they will reduce the numbers. but this is about the only way i see them doing anything.  There should be a lot of changes to help preserve and protect an awesome mule deer herd. Atleast permits cut in half. Closed roads, Some roads closed all winter to protect the winter range.  Less archery hunts, less rifle hunts. I think more people would rather hunt a trophy than be hunting for one of these small 3x3's and 4x4's that are in there now.  There is definitly lots of bucks durning the winter but they are all really small.

Good luck to all the hunters this year.  Gonna have a bunch of company to compete with for the few big 180 plus bucks that will show up.